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Featured The Hadith, source of Islamic atrocities.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SA Huguenot, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    You are being confusing. Are you saying there's no Muslim denominations? So how do you explain the difference between Sunni and Shia, for instance?
     
  2. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    You say it would be unwise to assume they are a minority? I say, it is unwise to assume they are a majority.
     
  3. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    @danieldemol ,

    Support for Death Penalty for Converts away from Islam:

    The best data I can find on the subject is coming from Pew Research 6 years ago. The survey ignored North America and Europe and found that in 5 countries and the Palestinian Territories, there was a majority approval for the death penalty for Converts away from Islam. I think in order to truly understand this data, one would need to look very closely at the way the question was phrased.

    But on the surface, according to Pew in 2013: the death penalty for apostasy is not supported by the majority of Muslims.

    hyperlink >>> pewforum.org - Muslim Beliefs About Sharia
     
  4. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Emailing individual scholars will give me the opinions of individuals, if the Wahhabis can produce IslamQA and they are a minority I think the majority easily have the resources to publish their consensus.
     
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  5. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    I haven't addressed the OP, only some comments that followed.
     
  6. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    It is supported by the majority in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Malaysia, Egypt, Jordan and Palestine, those are substantial numbers of Muslims that are too large to just ignore if you value your own personal safety, and even if it where only say for example 25% of Muslims, I see no reason why that 25% should be protected from criticism.
     
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  7. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    It's a weak argument, isn't it?

    A lack of evidence is not evidence.
     
  8. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    Sorry, I'm trying to be perfectly clear.

    No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying there is a fundamental problem with the term Salafi.

    One thing where is shows is that the Saudi government is frequently called Salafi. But which part of the cutting innocent journalists to pieces or bombing civilians for years on end, for instance, is something a Salafi would do? Yet when the crimes of Saudi Arabia are brought up a lot of people immediately shout out "its because they're Salafi", or "they're wahabbis". But these words have no meaning. The people who speak them don't know their meaning.

    So what does it essentially mean to say a website is "Salafi"? Especially islamqa.info which clearly has false information in its contents. Because of that absurd information it cannot legitimately be called "Salafi". And because of the site keeper's strange ideas about Islam, such as that Allah has feet or hands, he cannot adequately be called a "Salafi" either.

    Following the way of the Salafi according to most Muslims would undoubtedly be a positive thing. So why is here the word Salafi an insult? It makes no sense because the word is used incorrectly. The purpose of the word is to cause disunity, and political disorder. Unfortunately it really does affect the Muslim ummah as a whole.
     
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  9. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Those areas do not reflect the majority opinion of Muslims world-wide. The survey shows that support for death penalty for converts is Geographic.

    Let's be fair, please?

    At first, your claim was that a majority of Muslims support the death penalty for Apostasy. Now that number has been reduced to 25%. Once North America and Europe is added back in, what would the percentage be?

    20%?
    15%?

    That is a huge difference compared to over 50% ( which was your original assumption ).

    The data we have shows that most Muslims do not support death penalty for apostasy. Islam is not a one dimensional, black and white, all or nothing religion. It is diverse. It is International. The support for this rule is Geographic and it is limited.
     
  10. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    Your safety? To be punished for that you'd have to be a muslim.

    For a person to be officially an apostate in court they have to say it. If they are suspected of being one they can redo their shahada in court. So no one is legally "made" an apostate by accident. You have to declare your apostasy.

    For you that might sound like a nice revolutionary thing to do, but people in places like Palestine have problems ever so slightly bigger. So even if they don't believe, if they don't make a scene no one will know and they're safe, from the Palestinians..
     
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  11. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    Okay, I can understand what you're saying now. So what do you think we should call them, then?
     
  12. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    If you email the correct ones you'll have an opinion of many many individuals. They teach people you see, and they know what they're taking about for the most part.

    Of course you can also read. It was only a suggestion since you claim the information is difficult to access? You might be the only one to whom it is difficult.
     
  13. Mudramoksha

    Mudramoksha Member

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    Could you explain these verses first for me?

    Which verses? the first few pages are actually quite amazing, as far as scriptures go.
     
  14. Mudramoksha

    Mudramoksha Member

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    You mean the purpose of the movement, the kafir invention.
     
  15. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    It is truly sad if you see that as an acceptable state of affairs
     
  16. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    Who? The Saudis? Fundamentalist Muslims?

    Personally, and this opinion is shared by many scholars as well, I accept the use of the word Salafi, if it refers to certain principles in the practice of religion.

    One thing that drives these Salafis and shias to each others throats is that the Salafis consider it absolutely prohibited to pray to anyone else but Allah. To pray to the dead, even if to Muhammad himself, is absolutely prohibited. While some shias regularly pray "through" Ali. And say things like "ya Ali" (o, Ali) calling for his help. This is considered shirk.

    Exactly what amount of it or exactly what part of it is acceptable and what is shirk is what people don't agree on.

    Shias are one extreme end - almost anything is allowed (regarding this^)
    What they call "sunnis" (they sometimes use it as a very general term, as if all sunnis were the same) supposedly do the same. But since there are different schools and different peoples it is very difficult to point a specific group that accepts a specific thing. Some sunnis consider it acceptable, others don't.

    Some sunnis consider praying "through" Muhammad okay, others don't.
    Salafis are the other extreme end. All those things are prohibited. Only pray to Allah. Salafis are Sunnis.


    A major difference from a religious point of view, but is definitely not the reason for the cold War. It's what they use to incite this mutual hatred.
     
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  17. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    It's sad you couldn't derive any deeper meaning from my post.
     
  18. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    I don't uderstand.
     
  19. Mudramoksha

    Mudramoksha Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Yes, Hindus are better. They would never take up an AK-47 and go on shooting innocents or place a bomb in a bus. We resent some types of (frivolous) behavior, and I think that shows. We are generally a conservative people. I do not see anything wrong in putting the idols of their deities in their homes or businesses. They are being grateful. They don't wish anybody any harm. One gets respect if one gives respect. It is a mutual thing.
    They don't have to have a rule about it. They would just murder the person. So many of such murders have taken place in Pakistan and elsewhere. Like I said - One set teeth to show and another to eat.

    Technically, Muslims cannot judge any other Muslim on questions of belief. It is between him/her and Allah. If the person is right, Allah will give reward, if wrong, the punishment.
     
    #160 Aupmanyav, Jul 19, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2019
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