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Featured The Hadith, source of Islamic atrocities.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by SA Huguenot, Jul 18, 2019.

  1. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    I studied the Quran and Islam for the past 10 years or so, and at one stage I saw that the explanations Muslim Scholars gave me on various problem verses was always one of opinion.
    It works this way.
    I might find a verse that say
    • You should wage war against the Christian and Jew.
    • The Muslim scholar will then tell me to read everything in context, to which I agree.
    • He will inform me that this is only allowed when Muslims are attacked. Then If the attacker stops being agressive, the Muslims should allow the attacker to make peace.
    • I will ask him what does it mean that Muslims should fight in the way of Allah against those who wage war against him.
    • and he will reply that if Muslims are attacked they should fight back, he will give me a whole story of how I will react if someone attacks my mother, or kills my wife etc.
    Therefore, if one reasons out of the Quran alone, it is not easy to get to the bottom of why Muslims do the terrible things such as suicide bombings, Honor Killings, beheadings and so forth.

    But this all becomes clear once you get hold of the Hadith and read what Muhammad said and did.
    Then the Muslim scholar is silenced because they never thought that the English translations of their 2nd most holy scriptures will be read by the Western Judeo Christian civilisation.
    The Hadith is the acts and utterances Muhammad made during his life, which was remembered by his Wifes and companions after he died in 632AD.

    The oldest hadith was collected by Al Bukhari and completed in 850Ad, more than 200 years after Muhammad died.
    There are 6 Imam's who Muslims consider to be truthfull collectors, and which they follow. I only use Al Bukhari, because it is the closest to Muhammads time, even though 200 years off, and the result is, no one can critisize my research.
    The way Muslims wear long beards, short moustaches, their clothing and head cover, their words, prayers, greetings, going to toilet, washing, having intercourse, everything is dictated by the hadith.
    So, here is the reason why Muslims act as they do.
     
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  2. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Doesn't seem like you studied Islam for 10 years.
     
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  3. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    The Book of Hunting Penalty 891 When you are called for Jihad (Holy War), you must go immediately

    Book of Jihad 1204 There is no better deed than Jihad

    Book of Jihad 1206 A Militant will go to paradise if he dies, or to home with booty

    Book of Jihad 1208 Jihad is worth more than everything in and on the earth

    Book of Jihad 1216 Embrace Islam first then fight. (Prerequisite)

    Book of Jihad 1218 Fighting in war for Allah makes you superior

    Book of Jihad 1219 Gabriel (The Angel of Allah) leaded Muhammad into war

    Book of Jihad 1220 A man dies in battle goes to paradise, the one who killed him later converts and dies a martyr. He also goes to paradise.

    Book of Jihad 1225 Muhammads Muslims gave pledges to carry on with Jihad for the rest of their lives

    Book of Jihad 1260
    The Muslims that undertook the first naval expedition went to paradise

    Book of Jihad 1261
    When the Jews Hide behind Rocks in Jihad, the stones will shout out to the Muslims to come and kill them

    Book of Jihad 1270 The Muslim must fight to protect their Imam

    Book of Jihad 1279 Muhammad was made victorious with terror

    Book of Jihad 1292 Disregard for the lives of women and children at night during war

    Book of Jihad 1294 Kill anyone who abandons Islam

    Book of Jihad 1330 Assassins killed people on Muhammad’s orders

    Book of traditions of the prophets 1502 The last hour will occur after the Muslims fight the Turks who have small eyes, red faces, and flat noses

    Book of traditions of the prophets 1507 In the last days there will be people who will speak from the Quran, but they will abandon Islam (peace). They must be killed where ever you meet them

    Book of Holy Battles 1613 Muhammad won a war, Beheaded 800 men, distributed their women and children and property amongst the Muslims

    Book of Holy Battles 1618 If you die in Jihad, you go to paradise

    Book of Holy Battles 1629
    Muhammad instructs the Muslims to kill the men and take their offspring as captives

    Book of Holy Battles 1634
    The female captives of Banul'mustaliq was raped on the battlefield after beheading their men, Muhammad instructed the men not to prevent pregnancies

    Book of Holy Battles 1679 Buraida hated Ali after he saw Ali raped a captive woman from his booty. Muhammad stated that Ali should receive more than that.

    Book of prayer times 329
    The third dearest thing for Allah is Jihad

    Book of Emancipation 1145 Muhammad attacked the Banul mustaliq people without warning. He killed their men and took the women and children as slaves. He took one women himself.

    Book of Jihad 1276 Paradise is under the shade of the sword

    Book of traditions of the prophets 1452 If you die in a plague, you are a martyr

    Book of conditions 1192 The Quraish Muslims attacked innocent Quraish caravans, killed them and took their property

    Book of Holy Battles 1674 Khalid Ibn Al wakid Killed people because they were not true Muslim and instructed to kill the captives. Muhammad did not agree to that

    Book of Holy Quran Virtues 1844 Temporary marriage was instituted for a few hours by Muhammad to his soldiers when they were away from home on Jihad. (Legal prostitution)

    Book of blood money 2171 If a Muslim leaves Islam, He must be killed

    Book of funeral 678 The followers of Muhammad were fast in chopping people’s heads off.

    Book of conditions 1191 Omar judged that the Jews assaulted him one night. He expelled them without trail
     
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  4. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Well well well.
    perhaps you can tell me what the previous post instructs Muslims to do?
     
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  5. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    hyperlink >>> How reliable are Hadith? Some are contradictory.

    "Properly trained hadith scholars (such as the authors of the books mentioned above) are well aware that the hadith in collections such as Bukhari vary from highly reliable to relatively unreliable. Instead it is Muslims who have been brought up to believe that they must accept what they are told without critical thinking who are prone to believe that if a hadith is in Bukhari, it must be accurate and true."
     
    #5 dybmh, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  6. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Check this out!
    This is what Allah and Muhammad thinks of Women!

    Book of Menstruation 27+210 The majority or dwellers in hell are women. They are deficient in intelligence. The deficiency of her religion is that she can not pray during her menses.

    Book of eclipse 565 he majority of occupants in hell are women

    Book of obligatory Charity 740 The majority occupants in hell are women. They are deficient in intelligence and in religion

    Book of Jihad 1240
    Evil omen is in the horse, women and the house

    Book of creation 1369
    The angels curses women that refuses sex to their husbands

    Book of creation 1371 Women are the majority in hell

    Book of Holy Battles 1700 Any country ruled by a woman will never be successful

    Book of Holy Quran Virtues 1837 Women are an affliction to men

    Book of Holy Quran Virtues 1860 The majority in hell are women

    Book of Divorce 1876 A woman that got divorced for the third time, must first marry another, consummate the marriage, get divorced again, then can she return to the first husband

    Book of Menstruation 212 Women are forbidden to follow a funeral procession

    Book of selling 1024 A slave girl must be whipped if she commits adultery once and twice. The third time she must be sold.

    Book of gifts and virtues 1163 Captive slave women can be given away to other men as slave wives

    Book of conditions 1190 A women gets stoned to death for adultery

    Book of Holy Battles 1650 If a woman wear a veil, she will not be considered as a slave in possession. if she does not, she is open hunting ground

    Book on Quranic verses 1737 Mihammad instituted Temporary marriages for a few hours.by giving a woman as little as a garment (Mutwah marriage) (To have a Quickie during war?)
     
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  7. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    This specific quote should not be a problem. Jihad is not a bad thing all by itself. Arguably, this thread is your own Jihad.
     
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  8. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    My hadith source is the "Consise collection of the Authentic hadith by Al Bukhari."
    It is the authenticated hadith, and the less reliable hadith was removed from this publication.
    We dont need a Muslim scholar to tell me what I should read or not, The Saudi Universities already did that for them.
     
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  9. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    Big difference in writing what Muhammad says, and going around raping women after I killed their husbands and sons in the Name of God, wont you say?
     
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  10. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    I'm not telling you what to read. But the truth is, You believe this 'stuff' because is confirms your own preconceived notions. Your approach is flawed, my friend. It really is.
     
  11. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    Respectful question: Is that what you think a Jihad is? Jihad is not a physical act of war. There is a different word for that. And it is certainly not rape. Rape is prohibited by the Qur'an.

    I am actually a little surprised that you brought rape into this discussion. Many people cherry pick verses from the Old Testament in an effort to show that the Bible allows rape.

    The point is: These things that you think Muhammad said because they are in a Hadith. It's fine for you to believe it. But Islam, the religion, teaches that the Qur'an is the most authentic version of what Muhammad said and taught.

    Reading 1 collection of Hadith and considering it to hold more authority than the Qur'an is a very bad idea. This is not mainstream Islam. I'm not sure what it is, to be honest.
     
    #11 dybmh, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
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  12. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    What seems flawed to me is the idea that either:

    - 1.8 billion people can't be trusted to read the scripture on their own - as non-scholars

    or

    - 1.8 billion people are meant to rely on interpretations of Islamic scholars who can't even agree with each other.

    ==

    Why should non-Muslims rely on individual apologist's interpretations, such as yours? How do you come to conclude that your interpretations are the "correct" ones? I'm not trying to be snarky here.
     
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  13. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    These 1.8 billion people, how many of them believe that the Hadith Collection referenced in the OP should supersede the Qur'an?

    I think that's the point. The idea that 1 Hadith collection supersedes the Qur'an is a flawed approach for understanding Islam.

    Regarding my own interpretation: In order to determine whether or not it is a minority or majority opinion, google search: "Is Hadith Reliable"
     
  14. Wasp

    Wasp Active Member

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    Which scholar did you win in a debate?

    Usually a scholar will give you the context.

    But are you now saying you agree the Qur'an isn't to blame for terrorism?

    It would be useful if you quoted the actual Hadiths that you think are at fault.
     
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  15. Neutral Name

    Neutral Name Active Member

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    You should make the point that not all Muslims are violent. I have known many Muslims who are as loving as good Christians. It is the same for Muslim terrorists as it is and was with violent Christians with the Crusades, the Inquisition, the early monks in the Americas, the Salem witch trials, the Ku Klux Klan, the Nazis, Christians who murdered abortion doctors because murder was against the Ten Commandments and so many more. Christianity has a long history of violence.
     
    #15 Neutral Name, Jul 18, 2019
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  16. Neutral Name

    Neutral Name Active Member

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    He only studied enough to pronounce Muslims violent but forgot to study the other parts. On the other hand, he didn't study the Bible enough to know that Christians are supposed to love others.
     
    #16 Neutral Name, Jul 18, 2019
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  17. Neutral Name

    Neutral Name Active Member

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    The Holy Bible

    Exodus 21:17
    “Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death.

    Exodus 21:16
    “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

    Leviticus 21:9
    And the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by whoring, profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

    Proverbs 20:30
    Blows that wound cleanse away evil; strokes make clean the innermost parts.

    Exodus 22:18
    “You shall not permit a sorceress to live.

    Deuteronomy 2:34
    And we captured all his cities at that time and devoted to destruction every city, men, women, and children. We left no survivors.

    Hosea 13:16
    Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.

    Numbers 31:3
    So Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian to execute the Lord's vengeance on Midian.

    Exodus 21:24
    Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

    Leviticus 20:27
    “A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.”

    Sounds pretty violent to me. I especially like all the stuff about killing children and ripping open pregnant womens' stomachs.

    And there are many more verses.

    So, I guess the Bible is a violent book.
     
  18. Neutral Name

    Neutral Name Active Member

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    What does all of this tell Christians and Jews to do?

    The Holy Bible

    Exodus 21:17
    “Whoever curses his father or his mother shall be put to death.

    Exodus 21:16
    “Whoever steals a man and sells him, and anyone found in possession of him, shall be put to death.

    Leviticus 21:9
    And the daughter of any priest, if she profanes herself by whoring, profanes her father; she shall be burned with fire.

    Proverbs 20:30
    Blows that wound cleanse away evil; strokes make clean the innermost parts.

    Exodus 22:18
    “You shall not permit a sorceress to live.

    Deuteronomy 2:34
    And we captured all his cities at that time and devoted to destruction every city, men, women, and children. We left no survivors.

    Hosea 13:16
    Samaria shall bear her guilt, because she has rebelled against her God; they shall fall by the sword; their little ones shall be dashed in pieces, and their pregnant women ripped open.

    Numbers 31:3
    So Moses spoke to the people, saying, “Arm men from among you for the war, that they may go against Midian to execute the Lord's vengeance on Midian.

    Exodus 21:24
    Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

    Leviticus 20:27
    “A man or a woman who is a medium or a necromancer shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones; their blood shall be upon them.”

    Sounds pretty violent to me. I especially like all the stuff about killing children and ripping open pregnant womens' stomachs.

    And there are many more verses.

    So, I guess the Bible is a violent book.
     
  19. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    Thanks for your thoughtful reply. The experience I often have with apologists is that they play a sort of shell game. Over time and many discussions I've been told:

    - You can't take the Quran at face value, you have to consider the context, as captured by the Hadith.
    - You can't put too much weight on the Hadith, the Quran is the only true source.
    - Only scholars can correctly interpret the scripture.

    And so on.

    As far as I'm concerned the scripture is extremely flawed. (Islamic scripture is not unique in this regard.) IMO, the source of the problem is that Muslims can't really agree that they're scripture is flawed. They must defend that which does not stand up to scrutiny. That puts us all in an untenable and dangerous situation.
     
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  20. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

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    Like elephant's teeth, Islam has two versions. One for show, the other for practice. Quran is for show, hadith is for practice. We have a saying in Hindi picturising that "Hathi ke do dant, Khane ka aur, dikhane ka aur" (One for show, the other for eating).
     
    #20 Aupmanyav, Jul 18, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2019
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