The G.O.P. is Rotting

[metis]

Defending Trump takes a lot of depravity because so many of his actions and words are so utterly immoral by almost any standards one can think of. And, to again quote Gandhi's words, "To cooperate with evil is evil".

 

[Lyndon]

Bill Clinton and Donald Trump are both scumbags, but if I where to venture a guess at which one is worse for America, I'd have to go with Trump.

 

[metis]

Bill Clinton and Donald Trump are both scumbags, but if I where to venture a guess at which one is worse for America, I'd have to go with Trump.

And, as you're aware of, all this stuff about Clinton has been revived by the Republicans to deflect the attention from the Groper-In-Chief. "Two wrongs don't make a right", but they still want to play that disingenuous game. And they played the same exact disingenuous game with Hillary as well by portraying her as somehow being more depraved than Trump.

IMO, both sides are too "tribal" for my blood, but there's no doubt that the Republicans are trying to corner that market in their own "art of the deal"-- honesty be damned.

 

[sun rise]

What about upholding those American values like right to a fair trial. He says he didn't do it... It's her word against his.

Who is the 'he' here since both authors were writing about systemic rot in the Republican Party? Trump admitted his harassment and even reveled in it. And for Moore, Republicans have been chanting "lock her up" but when the shoe is on the other foot are saying "where's the conviction in court" - that is rank hypocrisy and is in fact one serious component in the GOP sewer.

 

[sun rise]

The people in the video.

Video? There are two opinion pieces in the OP.

 

[Lyndon]

there's no video. I don't know what kemo is talking about

 

[Kemosloby]

Who is the 'he' here since both authors were writing about systemic rot in the Republican Party? Trump admitted his harassment and even reveled in it. And for Moore, Republicans have been chanting "lock her up" but when the shoe is on the other foot are saying "where's the conviction in court" - that is rank hypocrisy and is in fact one serious component in the GOP sewer.

Lock who up? You can't lock someone up without a conviction in court...So yeah, take it to court. If she's lying lock her up.

 

[Kemosloby]

there's no video. I don't know what kemo is talking about

The second link in the first post there is a video.

 

[Kemosloby]

Video? There are two opinion pieces in the OP.

There's a video in the second link. They say it's not his handwriting but it sure looks like his handwriting. I'd say Moore is guilty as charged.

 

[Enoch07]

patriarchic

Just using that one word alone delegitimizes everything else he says.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Sorry to interrupt this lively debate, but back to the idea of a rotting Republican party.
I recognized that 17 years ago when I surrendered my lifelong Republican membership. The rot started with the trickle down president, and continued with the second Bush.
That party’s singular goal is the destruction of America as we knew it. They already succeeded in dismantling the middle class, and now they need to loot what little is left. Hence the increased need to pass tax giveaways to the already wealthy. They know America’s days are numbered, so the rich and powerful will loot all they can while the suckers let them, then they can escape to other locations and live happily ever after.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Sorry to interrupt this lively debate, but back to the idea of a rotting Republican party.
I recognized that 17 years ago when I surrendered my lifelong Republican membership. The rot started with the trickle down president, and continued with the second Bush.
That party’s singular goal is the destruction of America as we knew it. They already succeeded in dismantling the middle class, and now they need to loot what little is left. Hence the increased need to pass tax giveaways to the already wealthy. They know America’s days are numbered, so the rich and powerful will loot all they can while the suckers let them, then they can escape to other locations and live happily ever after.

I'm a life long conservative, too. I am so disenchanted with the political class now. Fortunately (?) I'm in Australia, and our current flock of conservative politicians aren't (quite) as bad as those in the US, but where the US goes, we tend to follow, and I fear for the future. But whatever the state of Australian politics is, watching recent American politics from an external POV is, without hyperbole, like watching a slow motion train wreck. At this point, I think the best we can hope for is that not too many bystanders are harmed in the imminent disaster, but even that seems decidedly optimistic.

 

[Ingledsva]

GOP is still the party who isn't going to put transvestite bathrooms in elementary schools. Trump could go 3 terms on that alone.

Which is stupid, - as that is the easiest way to fix the bathroom problem some folks are complaining about.

*

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I seriously doubt if Trump will be even a one term president.

Are you counting his prison term?

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

I am sure that should read the GOP rocks! ha ahhhhh' yes it is so! I think the political parties exist only to create strife and a good scapegoat to divert the population's attention from what the gov and those with real money are doing. Trump is no better or worse than he others that have come before him.

; {>

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

What part of innocent until proven guilty don't you understand?

How about that it doesn't apply outside of a legal or quasi-legal process, and even there, it doesn't mean what it seems to mean. Do you understand that? The concept is irrelevant in the process of character assessment.

Regarding the idea that the words aren't literally true even in a legal setting, if the defendant were truly treated as innocent, he wouldn't be a defendant, would he? He'd be released. He wouldn't have been arrested, charged, arraigned, required to post bail, needed an attorney, or been tried.

And the prosecutor is treating the defendant as guilty, which s/he believes is true if the case was brought in good faith.

So what does the phrase mean if not what it seems to say?

It means is that the prosecution has the burden of proof, not the defense. It means that if the prosecutor cannot get a guilty verdict, the defendant will be released (sometimes after a second trial in the case of a hung jury / mistrial)..

And none of that is relevant in deciding who is fit to serve in positions of trust and responsibility. The standard there is to err on the side of not accepting an unfit candidate whether it be as an employee, spouse, or your senator. Better to not hire or marry somebody that you suspect of having unproven character issues than to bring them into your life, which is essentially unacceptable until "proven" fit, which is never going to happen if there is unresolvable doubt..

This is in contrast to a legal setting, where the standard is to err on the side of releasing the guilty rather than convicting the innocent - exactly the opposite.

Are you aware of the message that your argument sends? Do you think that you project that you treat all people this way - that you never judge ill anybody not convicted in a court of law? Nobody does that - not you, and not me.

So why are you offering that as if it is your standard in Moore's case?

They say it's forged. So it's pretty simple, take it to court and let a jury decide.

No time. The voters of Alabama have just a few weeks before they must cast a verdict on Moore's fitness for office.

 

[PureX]

Agree with each sentence. However, I fear he will win. If so, the Senate should kick him out, but I suppose they won't. The Senate may initiate an ethics investigation, which will probably have little effect.

When liars, thieves, and criminals "investigate" themselves, there is rarely any result besides complicity.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I used the headline from Republican David Brooks' opinion piece as this thread title. There is an existential battle for the soul of America being fought right now between those who would tear it down and betray its high ideals and those who would try to build it up and repair its flaws. Of course it's not totally black and white given that ordinary human beings are involved. But that to me is the root of much of what we're seeing today.

David Brooks in his piece wrote:

You don’t help your cause by wrapping your arms around an alleged sexual predator and a patriarchic bigot. You don’t help your cause by putting the pursuit of power above character, by worshiping at the feet of some loutish man or another, by claiming the ends justify any means. You don’t successfully rationalize your own tawdriness by claiming your opponents are satanic. You don’t save Christianity by betraying its message.
...
The rot afflicting the G.O.P. is comprehensive — moral, intellectual, political and reputational. More and more former Republicans wake up every day and realize: “I’m homeless. I’m politically homeless.”

Here's one example of the effect on someone who at one point worked for Breitbart!!! I know some will say "good riddance", of course, but I say "may his tribe increase".

Roy Moore is the last straw, you can now call me a Democrat

I have spent the better part of my adult life working with and for Republicans at every level of government. I’ve worked at City Hall, for members of the California state legislature, members of the House and Senate, a congressional committee, moderates and conservatives. From Olympia Snowe to Breitbart News, I’ve traveled throughout the entire spectrum of the Republican Party.
...
For the first time since I was in high school, I was free from any professional loyalties. .... I couldn’t understand how so many in the GOP could stand by, silently, as Donald Trump and Steve Bannon remade and redefined the Republican Party. An unrelenting assault on the Constitution, the free press and freedom of expression while Republican “leaders” do nothing. Ignoring legitimate issues about race relations in America, environmental policy, gun reform and equality to instead pander to a lunatic fringe that subscribes to an ideology of hate and fear.

Which brings us to Roy Moore and the Alabama Senate race.

President Trump and the Republican National Committee are endorsing, supporting and funding Moore because they would rather elect a sexual predator who preys on underage teenagers at the local mall, than a crime-fighting prosecutor who happens to be a Democrat.
...
The embrace of Moore by the Republican Party’s top “leadership” is all the proof you need to know that this is a party that no longer stands for anything.

I believe that the Democratic Party will do more to create equality in America than the Republican Party ever will.
...
I am throwing in with the Democratic Party because at the end of the day, I believe its portrait of America is better than the one being painted by today’s Republican Party. And I want to be a part of it.

Kurt Bardella is a former spokesperson for Reps. Brian Bilbray (R-Calif.), Darrell Issa (R-Calif.), Sen. Olympia Snowe (R-Maine), the House Oversight & Government Reform Committee, and Breitbart News.

Yeah we know the Democrat Party are comprised of angels. Flawless and pure as the drivin snow.

 

[Twilight Hue]

In a democracy/republic, aren't the voters supposed to be the opposition check to bad politicians?

You would think so. But clearly it's the electorate and lobbyists who makes the decisions who's in, and who's out leading to whom gets appointed and who doesn't once political members are voted in.

It's clear that there are very low standards today by which officials are chosen or elected.

 

[Nakosis]

You would think so. But clearly it's the electorate and lobbyists who makes the decisions who's in, and who's out leading to whom gets appointed and who doesn't once political members are voted in.

It's clear that there are very low standards today by which officials are chosen or elected.

Then what difference would it make the number of parties? One party, two parties, the same folks are going to be voting.