The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
False to you is just fine to another. How many paths up a mountain are there, blackdog?
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All faith comes from the same place.
All paradox can be reconciled.
False to you is just fine to another. How many paths up a mountain are there, blackdog?
You do not understand faith as you say.I was more hoping for an explanation of how that can be. If it logically makes no sense, then its nothing to be taken seriously. At least, that is how I see it.
I do agree, faith comes from the same place, the persons mind. It just has no bearing on whether something is true or not and thus, is a bad reason for believing imo. Unless you prefer in believing in false things of course, but that would also strike me as very odd.
Faith takes many forms. Sometimes it's in people, other times gods.it just seems like this concept is only applied to this very niche, and very odd concept, that is called faith.
You do not understand faith as you say.
If you did you would not keep saying that it is used to believe in false things.
I do not believe in false things.
That would be rather foolish or odd as you say.
Faith takes many forms. Sometimes it's in people, other times gods.
Au contrare. Every year, towards it's end, I have faith that the Gods I worship will return again. I have faith that the crops planted in honor of Freyr and Jord will grow, tended by them and my own works. And when the atmosphere becomes too conflicted, I have faith that Thor will arrive to set it right.Agreed, but we are talking about very different concepts of faith. The usage of the word starts to become quite aggravating when it comes to this. Having faith in my brother to watch my kids is indeed some form of faith, it isn't however blind faith, it is faith based on experience in reality. When it comes to gods, you hardly have anything remotely similar to draw from.
Faith is not blind if exercised.However using your definition of faith would indeed allow Frankenstein to exist, or fairies, if one decided to put their faith in such concepts. Don't necessarily think this is ridiculous either, there are people who believe in fairies. My question is, using your definition of faith, how can you say this is false? If you think anything extraordinary is true, just on the basis that one has to have faith in it, then you have already made the argument for any number of false things that I could label here in this thread. In that case, what good is faith and how does it make anything true in the real world and not merely inside of someones mind?
Au contrare. Every year, towards it's end, I have faith that the Gods I worship will return again. I have faith that the crops planted in honor of Freyr and Jord will grow, tended by them and my own works. And when the atmosphere becomes too conflicted, I have faith that Thor will arrive to set it right.
And yes, you could argue "that's not the same, those are all real things" but I would say that's quite framing the argument. Those are theistic beliefs that are based on experiences in reality. Not all theistic beliefs are believing that the sun is going to turn into an avenging destroyer.
Zeus (and, in the same vein, Thor) are credited and attributed to thunderstorms (among other things), not all electrical function. Modern technology is usually not included in honoring of the Gods.if I start my car tomorrow and it runs and I give the honor to Zeus could it truly be said that Zeus had anything to do with my car running?
It is the experience of the believer, framed by culture and the experience itself, that makes for belief. Not blind belief, that's taught and adhered to without reason. It must be understood, and recognized, that we're not just dealing with ideals and fantasy; those of us who actively and knowingly worship have experience with our gods as higher beings and intelligences. It is why I worship Thor, rather than Zeus, in a culture that certainly does not pressure or suggest Thor. Yet they are the Gods who call to me, who's voices and presences I hear and feel in the world around me.My primary point is trying to understand why.
If you are interested in my reason why read post number 73 in the what are we made of thread.Ah, yes Norse mythology. I don't wish to take away from your beliefs, nor are your beliefs damaging to anyone. This is of course where I have to tread carefully so I don't offend. The only question I will ask is if I start my car tomorrow and it runs and I give the honor to Zeus could it truly be said that Zeus had anything to do with my car running? Wasn't it the manufacturer who made it? Wasn't it that I had gasoline in it? Do my monthly checkups not take away from the idea that Zeus had anything to do with it? Why would I even include Zeus in this equation?
I suppose it is quite clear we simply believe in reality on a different level from one another. I do respect your beliefs, I cannot say they are not true, nor would I try. My primary point is trying to understand why.
Like what?Many of it teachings are beyond the intellect of men.
The apocalypse wouldn't be a thing if Jesus and Satan were besties again...If you have any indication Jesus does not love Satan, now would be a good time to present it.
I'm saying that bloodlust could happen to deities too.So what's your point?
Ah, but which side is telling the truth? People who worshipped Baal were killed by Yahweh's followers for just wanting some rain so their crops would grow. Yahweh, being the chaotic sea god from the Epic of Baal, just floods everything He doesn't like.Not funny at all, it is expected.
Yeah, they aren't the nerds of their mythologies. Hephaestus is one example of a go-to for awesome machines.Zeus (and, in the same vein, Thor) are credited and attributed to thunderstorms (among other things), not all electrical function. Modern technology is usually not included in honoring of the Gods.
I think you say that faith means a strong belief in God. I say a person can believe very strongly in God, but not act in a way that proves it. I say faith means proving belief in God. Proving is an action verb.Mmm, no part of that definition applies to ones belief in a God/gods. Thinking doing and saying are different than believing in a God. However, I can work with this definition because it includes belief which was exactly what I was saying before. This definition would also encompass why a terrorist would do what he does. I don't think we are at odds, but you made it seem so.
Name just one that would be impossible for a man to come up with. I would like to debate that point, although maybe another thread would be better for this. That isn't to say I mind you posting it in this thread though
Like what?
The apocalypse wouldn't be a thing if Jesus and Satan were besties again...
I'm saying that bloodlust could happen to deities too./QUOTE]
There is no blood lust in God.
Ah, but which side is telling the truth? People who worshipped Baal were killed by Yahweh's followers for just wanting some rain so their crops would grow.
Actually it was to find water to keep the animals alive, but they prophets of Baal were not killed for that. They were killed for braking the first commandment and spreading a false religion among God's people.
Yahweh, being the chaotic sea god from the Epic of Baal, just floods everything He doesn't like.
Sometimes the punishment for man's sins, is dramatic. If God had not caused the flood, things would have gotten worse. The final destination of those killed in the flood, was not changed.
Yeah, they aren't the nerds of their mythologies. Hephaestus is one example of a go-to for awesome machines.
If you want to put your faith in hephaestus, be my guest.
Correct me if I am wrong, but all of your points still take the base stance that they are right correct? That would of been the crux of what I was saying.
As far as believing out of tradition, good point! This is another reason people believe. Usually once they begin to truly take their belief seriously they hold onto better reasons, or at least I would hope, but as a child I believed only out of tradition and what I was brought up in. I couldn't imagine an adult believing for such a seemingly bad reason.
I gave one---Love your enemy
To become strong, we must become weak---2 Cor 12:10
To save our life we must lose it.---Lk 9:24
To become wise we must become foolish---I Cor 3:18
One man can die for the sins of the world---Heb 10:14
God the Holy Spirit indwells every believer---Eph 1:13
God look on the inside for our obedience, not on our outward appearance.---I Sam 16:20
I don't know enough about some religions to say this is true, but I don't remember any religion having an omnipresent God.
The doctrine of the Trinity is also unique.
There are many more but this will give you plenty to chew on.
Most of these concepts were applied long before Christianity. You do know that Hinduism is the oldest religion that is still around today and had the concept of loving your enemy. To the rest, do you really think someone could write a book like Lord of the Rings, but the Bible would of been impossible? Humans are quite imaginitive, and have proven that throughout history. Nothing listed would of been impossible and even more bizarre and outside the box concepts have been written long before the bible.
To the end point, your just claiming uniqueness as a reason for why this is true. It adds nothing. Hinduism is also unique, that aspect doesn't make it correct or makes its gods real by default.
This was one of my primary points. If the Trinity is true for being unique, then Muhammad is true for flying into heaven on a winged horse and Hinduism is true for having the most gods. Literally every religion has something unique about it. This is a point in noones court.
You wont find what I posted in any other religion and Hinduism is not the oldest religion. Judaism is and you can't show me one written document of Hinduism that tells it s followers to love their enemy.
If the writings are not found in other religions, then they are unique and must have come from God. Hinduism is not unique in that sense. Tell me something Hinduism teaches that is not in Christianity.
The Trinity being true has nothing to do with the myths of other religions.
Wonderful. Tell me what is unique about Hinduism.