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The following things about your religion aren't special...

Liu

Well-Known Member
Many of the things you listed are actually reasons for religion and not against, in my opinion. One should just be aware of the fact that they are not specific to one's religion, and be careful not to put complete trust in one's beliefs or metaphysical assumptions.

I agree that many religions insist on being the only truth and value blind faith very highly.

But enjoying the feelings, having something to identify with, finding a cause to fight for, experimenting with one's psyche - there's nothing wrong with that, if one does it intentionally :D
Unfortunately, most don't but simply believe.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Many, many people. I of course would not claim all, but if you have not heard someone mention how amazing Jesus' sacrifice was (a unique aspect only to Christianity) and how without him and his sacrifice the entire religion wouldn't make sense, I would say you probably havent been to many western churches. Then again, you mention my pov is inbedded in the west which.... is where im from! So, yes, naturally it would be. I also know many Muslims and they also think their Quran is very special and unique and that the unique truths shared within as well as the self evident truths of Muhammad and Allah are why it should be believed. Between these 2 religions we have covered the majority of everyones beliefs on this planet. At least, generally, there are minor differences here and there. That isnt to say we have covered them all, or that im trying too, simply that, factually, this is the case. Just go randomly pick out someone from a church and ask them why they believe their religion is the word of God. I bet you find many will tell you aspects about their belief that are unique to that belief, such as Jesus.

Well that's two religions. Two, out of a possible what 10, 20 odd? A tad myopic, wouldn't you say? What about Judaism? Hinduism? Sikhism? Buddhism? Pagans? Satanists?
This is almost like some form of Pascal's Wager going on.
I've heard JWs tell me about Jesus, but having grown up around Catholics, Protestants and Hindus in Australia, ehhh, not so much "oh we're the one and only Truth because Jesus." More interested in having beers than proselytizing.Even RE was more Biblical based than harping on about Jesus. Which was a tad odd now that I look back at it. Evangelicals are probably more prominent in America, honestly. Or perhaps they're just not as obnoxiously everywhere in Australia, I dunno.:shrug:

Aye, there are many different kinds of people. I am speaking in generalities and from my POV that I have personally experienced. I am open for other reasons why someone would think their particular religion is true. If its not in one of my points, I would be curious. Some of your post I dont feel like is addressing me in particular. I am not arguing people follow all religious leaders blindly or anything, nor am I ridiculing or assuming most people are trying to turn everyone Christian or Muslim, just attempting to give the best reasons I have heard for why people believe their personal religion is true and trying to make sense out of it from an objective pov when bringing all religions together.

Well, I do agree that those who proselytize are often annoying and arrogant. That they lack introspection and simply think theirs is the only way.
But perhaps that is down to the brand of Christian. Or person. The whole errr "enthusiastic" Christian is rather foreign to me, even though I grew up in a majority Christian country, in the West.
 

omega2xx

Well-Known Member
So upon studying and exploring quite a number of religions on a personal level I have come to the conclusion that religion is nothing more than a mindset that exists when people put complete faith in a concept. That is, none of what you are experiencing is unique to your religion, it exists within all religions, it can be said, it is simply an aspect of human beings.

Lets examine what I mean by this by going through several points I hear the most when someone argues that their religion must be right.

1: I can feel God! - Mmmhmm, I believe you believe that, I also believe every other religion I have come across in the last 15 years also believes that. When I speak to people who claim to have seen Gods, Aliens, hell, even fairies, they come across as very sincere. I wouldn't doubt their sincerity, however it is not unique to your belief, nor does it make it true. It means nothing at all given these facts. At least, nothing when it comes to any "reason" why your belief is true.

2: God speaks to me! - Again, I believe you believe that. So does everyone else. It is not special nor does it actually mean anything.

3: My Gods story is Unique, Jesus died for me! - Of course the story is unique, well not really, there have usually been similar stories previously that your story was likely based on, however, among current beliefs, it is unique. Of course it being unique also means every other religions story is unique as well. Spiderman is fairly unique, but unfortunately, this means nothing at all. Nor is it a reason to believe.

4: I like how it makes me feel - Sure, this is true of most religions. It means nothing for the truth of it, however it can be a good reason to believe, just be aware you could be living a lie to ease your pain.

5: I have faith! You just don't understand faith... - Terrorists have faith. Not only is there absolutely nothing virtuous about the concept of accepting things without evidence, it can be very dangerous (although not always). At the very least you are being willfully delusional for some form of benefit. This cannot be a healthy way to live. Either way, it is not a good reason to believe, the act of which would, and can only, be evidence for anything and everything....including every other religion....or say.....fairies...

So what is my point in all this? Did I come here just to make you feel bad about your beliefs? Or at least, attempt too? No, I didn't. I did this to show we are all spiraling around the same concepts, the same emotions, to prove that which is unprovable, and yet, no reason we have come up with is inherently unique to our religion. So why do people make special exceptions for only their religion, while demonstrably, denying that very same "evidence" as good reasons to believe in other religions? Further more, how is it not obvious that you are looking in the mirror playing a game that everyone else is playing, a game which is obviously full of holes, fallacies and errors. A game, deep down, you know has no conclusion?

EDIT: I should also add these were major points for why I believed, as well as major points as to why everyone I have spoken too for the last few years, has given for why they believe. It is not intended to encompass the abstract or every line of thought, nor was it meant to be. If your reasons for belief fall outside of these points, feel free to list them. I would love to get new insights :D

While the things you mention are said by some, they are not typical. Also, you are looking in the wrong place. Look at what Jesus say, not at what His followers say.

Do you find any of man's wisdom in "love your enemy?" Do you find that doctrine in any other religion?

Listen to the teacher, not His pupils.
 
So upon studying and exploring quite a number of religions on a personal level I have come to the conclusion that religion is nothing more than a mindset that exists when people put complete faith in a concept. That is, none of what you are experiencing is unique to your religion, it exists within all religions, it can be said, it is simply an aspect of human beings.

Lets examine what I mean by this by going through several points I hear the most when someone argues that their religion must be right.

1: I can feel God! - Mmmhmm, I believe you believe that, I also believe every other religion I have come across in the last 15 years also believes that. When I speak to people who claim to have seen Gods, Aliens, hell, even fairies, they come across as very sincere. I wouldn't doubt their sincerity, however it is not unique to your belief, nor does it make it true. It means nothing at all given these facts. At least, nothing when it comes to any "reason" why your belief is true.

2: God speaks to me! - Again, I believe you believe that. So does everyone else. It is not special nor does it actually mean anything.

3: My Gods story is Unique, Jesus died for me! - Of course the story is unique, well not really, there have usually been similar stories previously that your story was likely based on, however, among current beliefs, it is unique. Of course it being unique also means every other religions story is unique as well. Spiderman is fairly unique, but unfortunately, this means nothing at all. Nor is it a reason to believe.

4: I like how it makes me feel - Sure, this is true of most religions. It means nothing for the truth of it, however it can be a good reason to believe, just be aware you could be living a lie to ease your pain.

5: I have faith! You just don't understand faith... - Terrorists have faith. Not only is there absolutely nothing virtuous about the concept of accepting things without evidence, it can be very dangerous (although not always). At the very least you are being willfully delusional for some form of benefit. This cannot be a healthy way to live. Either way, it is not a good reason to believe, the act of which would, and can only, be evidence for anything and everything....including every other religion....or say.....fairies...

So what is my point in all this? Did I come here just to make you feel bad about your beliefs? Or at least, attempt too? No, I didn't. I did this to show we are all spiraling around the same concepts, the same emotions, to prove that which is unprovable, and yet, no reason we have come up with is inherently unique to our religion. So why do people make special exceptions for only their religion, while demonstrably, denying that very same "evidence" as good reasons to believe in other religions? Further more, how is it not obvious that you are looking in the mirror playing a game that everyone else is playing, a game which is obviously full of holes, fallacies and errors. A game, deep down, you know has no conclusion?

EDIT: I should also add these were major points for why I believed, as well as major points as to why everyone I have spoken too for the last few years, has given for why they believe. It is not intended to encompass the abstract or every line of thought, nor was it meant to be. If your reasons for belief fall outside of these points, feel free to list them. I would love to get new insights :D

I remember that when George W. Bush jr. gave the order to attack Iraq back in 2003, based on the since proven as bogus claim that Iraq was stockpiling WMDs or Weapons of Mass Destruction, and incidentally resulting in the documented death of over 100, 000 innocent Iraqi civilians, he was interviewed on television and stated that he had been woken up in the middle of the night, by an angel who 'had a message from God'. that message being to attack Iraq.
To this day when discussing the history of the war on Iraq with Americans, particularly those who might belong to the religious far right, that same incident comes up. 'George W. Bush was acting on direct orders from God'. As an agnostic I can't argue for or against whether there is a God, but that if there is, I very much doubt that he or she is a genocidal maniac, the kind who would launch an unprovoked attack on a country's capital slaughtering tens of thousands civilians while they slept and later continuing the unjustified war and killing countless more thousands, mainly for the sake of gaining control over that country's oil supplies.
Hence I meet with deep skepticism anyone's claim that God has spoken to them and they are acting on God's behalf.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Hmmm.
So upon studying and exploring quite a number of religions on a personal level I have come to the conclusion that religion is nothing more than a mindset that exists when people put complete faith in a concept. That is, none of what you are experiencing is unique to your religion, it exists within all religions, it can be said, it is simply an aspect of human beings.

Who said that their one religion is unique? Many people I know acknowledge the overtone similarities between our faiths and they also put a lot of emphasis that many of our religions specific focus on human beings (making us the center of the universe).

1: I can feel God! - Mmmhmm, I believe you believe that, I also believe every other religion I have come across in the last 15 years also believes that. When I speak to people who claim to have seen Gods, Aliens, hell, even fairies, they come across as very sincere. I wouldn't doubt their sincerity, however it is not unique to your belief, nor does it make it true. It means nothing at all given these facts. At least, nothing when it comes to any "reason" why your belief is true.

Most religions know that religions is a human trait given many say "humans are more intelligent than animals." They set themselves at a higher standard for some reason.

than a mindset that exists when people put complete faith in a concept​

Although many religious won't explain it this way since concepts themselves are real just as anything else but you are right, they do put complete faith in concepts and that is why they have belief in their god(s).

2: God speaks to me! - Again, I believe you believe that. So does everyone else. It is not special nor does it actually mean anything.

Who says it is special? Millions and millions of people acknowledge that other people believe and hear their god(s). What is the difference is other people's god(s) isn't their god, as a result it isn't the right one. They don't deny it is not special. Religion is personal not universal.

3: My Gods story is Unique, Jesus died for me! - Of course the story is unique, well not really, there have usually been similar stories previously that your story was likely based on, however, among current beliefs, it is unique. Of course it being unique also means every other religions story is unique as well. Spiderman is fairly unique, but unfortunately, this means nothing at all. Nor is it a reason to believe.

It's not unique, no. Many people have died for a bunch of other people. I guess this claim is something you'd have to swallow. Religion is personal; so, of course, they are going to say it's true.

4: I like how it makes me feel - Sure, this is true of most religions. It means nothing for the truth of it, however it can be a good reason to believe, just be aware you could be living a lie to ease your pain.

Give us proof that what we are experiencing as human beings via our senses, perception, culture, language, and upbringing is a lie.

5: I have faith! You just don't understand faith... - Terrorists have faith. Not only is there absolutely nothing virtuous about the concept of accepting things without evidence, it can be very dangerous (although not always). At the very least you are being willfully delusional for some form of benefit. This cannot be a healthy way to live. Either way, it is not a good reason to believe, the act of which would, and can only, be evidence for anything and everything....including every other religion....or say.....fairies...

Having faith in things without evidence nad being delusional are two different things.

I have faith that my ancestors speak to me. Delusional means there is an unhealthy means that someone sees and accept things that are not there. Faith is another word for trust. What we believe is there, we cannot prove. That isn't delusional, the best word for that instead is "leap of faith; hope; guess."

I remember going to therapy years ago and my therapist gave me an example of on client who heard voices. He had a medical condition only because he was in danger to himself and others but when he learned how to accept the voices while on medication to control physical symptoms, he didn't feel a need to listen to them. And to those voices that were positive, he didn't have that fear as he had before.

Delusions aren't unhealthy. However, religiously, faith-religions aren't delusions, they are just trusting in something they do not find reason to ask for evidence for.

Why should they ask for evidence?

Why is it detrimental to their spiritual health to believe in something they cannot objectively prove?

So what is my point in all this? Did I come here just to make you feel bad about your beliefs? Or at least, attempt too?

Pretty much. The delusional part kind of toped it.

No, I didn't. I did this to show we are all spiraling around the same concepts, the same emotions, to prove that which is unprovable, and yet, no reason we have come up with is inherently unique to our religion. So why do people make special exceptions for only their religion, while demonstrably, denying that very same "evidence" as good reasons to believe in other religions?

Religion is personal. It's unique unto ourselves and our community of like-minded believers. What does evidence have to do with a person's spiritual health and how it affects them for the good without the need to prove it?

Further more, how is it not obvious that you are looking in the mirror playing a game that everyone else is playing, a game which is obviously full of holes, fallacies and errors. A game, deep down, you know has no conclusion?

If it were a life and death situation, you'd have a point. It is not. Delusions aren't dangerous. I think the only people who haven't accept the so-called delusion are the people who say they don't have one.

should also add these were major points for why I believed, as well as major points as to why everyone I have spoken too for the last few years, has given for why they believe. It is not intended to encompass the abstract or every line of thought, nor was it meant to be. If your reasons for belief fall outside of these points, feel free to list them. I would love to get new insights

What I believe falls in these points even though I do not believe in god(s). With that said, I'd never say what I believe is a delusion or anything above because it is personal to me and :) it makes me feel good. I don't see it as faith but fact; but, every religion is different (rather than the word unique). If we can accept the differences in our religion, we, I hope, won't be fussing over who has the best one. However, regardless of who thinks themselves as special, that believe is just that, a belief. The only people that have problems with it seem to be fundamentalist in their respective faiths and many ex-believers who wish to disprove or question the validity of their former faith.

Maybe they still in the phase of "accepting this is what they believe and this is what I believe" and let it be. We can't change people to be evidence-driven. That's saying "our views are special and yours are, s/mess." That's sharing in the mindset of the believers you all disagree with.

Accept it and move on.
 
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Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
So upon studying and exploring quite a number of religions on a personal level I have come to the conclusion that religion is nothing more than a mindset that exists when people put complete faith in a concept.

Could you explain to me what your study and exploration entailed? I ask because you seem to be glossing over some of the major aspects of religions, which is more than a little surprising. Were you reading literature written by the academics and subject experts on religion? Did you look at the social functions of religions at all? What about the practices? How much have you explored the role of mythic storytelling on informing a people's way of life within a religious context? How about other arts, whether performing arts or visual arts?

That is, none of what you are experiencing is unique to your religion, it exists within all religions, it can be said, it is simply an aspect of human beings.

I'm sorry, I don't understand, and your list of examples don't seem to support this argument to me. But I'm also really confused about you jumping from the uniqueness of one's religion to this part here:


Lets examine what I mean by this by going through several points I hear the most when someone argues that their religion must be right.

What does "must be right" have to do with the uniqueness of personal religious experiences? I'm not understanding your train of thought here. Only some types of people exhibit the "need to be right" syndrome, and this variable seems quite independent of the inherent uniqueness of each person's individual experiences within a religious tradition. What is it you are really wanting to discuss here? I don't get the impression is t is really the subject of the uniqueness of personal experiences.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So upon studying and exploring quite a number of religions on a personal level I have come to the conclusion that religion is nothing more than a mindset that exists when people put complete faith in a concept. That is, none of what you are experiencing is unique to your religion, it exists within all religions, it can be said, it is simply an aspect of human beings.

Lets examine what I mean by this by going through several points I hear the most when someone argues that their religion must be right.

1: I can feel God! - Mmmhmm, I believe you believe that, I also believe every other religion I have come across in the last 15 years also believes that. When I speak to people who claim to have seen Gods, Aliens, hell, even fairies, they come across as very sincere. I wouldn't doubt their sincerity, however it is not unique to your belief, nor does it make it true. It means nothing at all given these facts. At least, nothing when it comes to any "reason" why your belief is true.

2: God speaks to me! - Again, I believe you believe that. So does everyone else. It is not special nor does it actually mean anything.

3: My Gods story is Unique, Jesus died for me! - Of course the story is unique, well not really, there have usually been similar stories previously that your story was likely based on, however, among current beliefs, it is unique. Of course it being unique also means every other religions story is unique as well. Spiderman is fairly unique, but unfortunately, this means nothing at all. Nor is it a reason to believe.

4: I like how it makes me feel - Sure, this is true of most religions. It means nothing for the truth of it, however it can be a good reason to believe, just be aware you could be living a lie to ease your pain.

5: I have faith! You just don't understand faith... - Terrorists have faith. Not only is there absolutely nothing virtuous about the concept of accepting things without evidence, it can be very dangerous (although not always). At the very least you are being willfully delusional for some form of benefit. This cannot be a healthy way to live. Either way, it is not a good reason to believe, the act of which would, and can only, be evidence for anything and everything....including every other religion....or say.....fairies...

So what is my point in all this? Did I come here just to make you feel bad about your beliefs? Or at least, attempt too? No, I didn't. I did this to show we are all spiraling around the same concepts, the same emotions, to prove that which is unprovable, and yet, no reason we have come up with is inherently unique to our religion. So why do people make special exceptions for only their religion, while demonstrably, denying that very same "evidence" as good reasons to believe in other religions? Further more, how is it not obvious that you are looking in the mirror playing a game that everyone else is playing, a game which is obviously full of holes, fallacies and errors. A game, deep down, you know has no conclusion?

EDIT: I should also add these were major points for why I believed, as well as major points as to why everyone I have spoken too for the last few years, has given for why they believe. It is not intended to encompass the abstract or every line of thought, nor was it meant to be. If your reasons for belief fall outside of these points, feel free to list them. I would love to get new insights :D
Well you have sort of scratched the surface. I can experience (visual) but the narrative I create is not the experience (astrology). I can experience taste, the taste of an orange, and the narrative it tastes like chicken is not the same thing. I can hear , the sound of the ocean, narrative it sounds like clock. So we can split narrative from experience and look more closely at that. Doing that literally is not easy. I said you kinda sorta have it going in this thread but the underlying experiences are interestingly there , and yes we tend to interpret them based on what? Dan browns da vinchi code alludes to this in the beginning.
 

David T

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So you decided what everyone in the world thinks, so that you can then tell them they are all wrong. This is how you delude yourself into believing you and your views are unique.
Agreed. The post was very baptist!!!! One more I am right you are wrong. Coldplay had a song called clocks. In it it asks are you the disease or the cure. It implies yes but you first have to admit to the disease to be the cure. It's easy to see in others very difficult in one's own perceptions. Btw notice not a single allusion to nature, Just narrow telelogical opinion.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
Yes, most elements of most religions mirror form, function, and purpose. Human beings are, if anything, largely unoriginal and predictable.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So upon studying and exploring quite a number of religions on a personal level I have come to the conclusion that religion is nothing more than a mindset that exists when people put complete faith in a concept. That is, none of what you are experiencing is unique to your religion, it exists within all religions, it can be said, it is simply an aspect of human beings.

Lets examine what I mean by this by going through several points I hear the most when someone argues that their religion must be right.

1: I can feel God! - Mmmhmm, I believe you believe that, I also believe every other religion I have come across in the last 15 years also believes that. When I speak to people who claim to have seen Gods, Aliens, hell, even fairies, they come across as very sincere. I wouldn't doubt their sincerity, however it is not unique to your belief, nor does it make it true. It means nothing at all given these facts. At least, nothing when it comes to any "reason" why your belief is true.

2: God speaks to me! - Again, I believe you believe that. So does everyone else. It is not special nor does it actually mean anything.

3: My Gods story is Unique, Jesus died for me! - Of course the story is unique, well not really, there have usually been similar stories previously that your story was likely based on, however, among current beliefs, it is unique. Of course it being unique also means every other religions story is unique as well. Spiderman is fairly unique, but unfortunately, this means nothing at all. Nor is it a reason to believe.

4: I like how it makes me feel - Sure, this is true of most religions. It means nothing for the truth of it, however it can be a good reason to believe, just be aware you could be living a lie to ease your pain.

5: I have faith! You just don't understand faith... - Terrorists have faith. Not only is there absolutely nothing virtuous about the concept of accepting things without evidence, it can be very dangerous (although not always). At the very least you are being willfully delusional for some form of benefit. This cannot be a healthy way to live. Either way, it is not a good reason to believe, the act of which would, and can only, be evidence for anything and everything....including every other religion....or say.....fairies...

So what is my point in all this? Did I come here just to make you feel bad about your beliefs? Or at least, attempt too? No, I didn't. I did this to show we are all spiraling around the same concepts, the same emotions, to prove that which is unprovable, and yet, no reason we have come up with is inherently unique to our religion. So why do people make special exceptions for only their religion, while demonstrably, denying that very same "evidence" as good reasons to believe in other religions? Further more, how is it not obvious that you are looking in the mirror playing a game that everyone else is playing, a game which is obviously full of holes, fallacies and errors. A game, deep down, you know has no conclusion?

EDIT: I should also add these were major points for why I believed, as well as major points as to why everyone I have spoken too for the last few years, has given for why they believe. It is not intended to encompass the abstract or every line of thought, nor was it meant to be. If your reasons for belief fall outside of these points, feel free to list them. I would love to get new insights :D
How about religions that do not make exclusivity claims? I would recommend a two-pronged approach:-
1) Oppose the exclusivistic claims of religions. Its patently absurd as you have rightly pointed out.
2) Actually investigate the phenomena and experience that religions seeks to explain without presuming its a delusion or an illusion (but not ruling out the possibility that it could be).
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
On the other hand, this post is also intellectually shallow. It doesn't add anything to the discussion.
It adds what I believe to be an accurate characterization of the OP. That you employ the word "also" suggests agreement with that assessment. Thanks.
Why don't you expand on your criticism and elaborate on his failings so that he can learn something about it ? Why resort to mere disdain ?
Because:
  • the intent of the OP is to lecture, not learn, and
  • the intent of my response was to characterize and then register my disdain.
Nice talk.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I suppose I should rename this thread to "Give me one good reason why you believe!" :D

I believe things and pursue certain worldviews because I find them useful. The various measures of usefulness include
1) Pursuing my day-to-day activities (social, professional, interpersonal or otherwise) in a better manner
2) Improving my ability to know and understand the world
3) Improving my insight into ethics
4) Increasing inner well-being (not stressed out, calmness, empathy etc.)


You are already making assumptions in your questions that are unique to the Abrahamic religions and are not found anywhere else. These are:-

a) A religious worldview forces you to choose it entirely 100% and reject everything else 100%
b) It claims to be a complete package and believers in it think nothing else is needed (or all else is false).
c) Its primarily a belief (a series of normative truth claims) rather than a praxis (a series of methods of investigative, ethical or social activity). That means you believe that there exists no religions that advocate for a series of spiritual or ethical methods of a category similar to the scientific method without presupposing what such a pursuit would unravel.

Needless to say all these assumptions are false.

Of course many people do believe that way you describe. Feel free to criticize them as you wish.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
It adds what I believe to be an accurate characterization of the OP. That you employ the word "also" suggests agreement with that assessment. Thanks.
Because:
  • the intent of the OP is to lecture, not learn, and

Did you even properly read the OP, or did you just skim through it ?
The OP expressed his point of view, yes. But he didn't act in a patronizing manner, unlike your comment.

  • the intent of my response was to characterize and then register my disdain.
Nice talk.

In other words, a self-serving comment. If my memory serves me right you have criticized him for doing that.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Pontificating on childish and self serving caricatures is intellectually shallow and tiresome. But thanks for sharing.

With all due respect, this looks more like the reaction to an exposed nerve than like a serious rebuttal.

Ciao

- viole
 

buddhist

Well-Known Member
... points I hear the most when someone argues that their religion must be right.

1: I can feel God!

2: God speaks to me!

3: My Gods story is Unique, Jesus died for me!

5: I have faith! You just don't understand faith...
My religion argues none of these things.

4: I like how it makes me feel
Isn't that why people gravitate towards religion (and other things?), because it helps to reduce their perception of suffering (or increase their perception of pleasure)?
 

LAGoff

Member
Just a quick 'drive-by' from the OT that may be of interest in parsing the delicate balance between anything goes ("I pray to Mary and she gives me what I want") and "only one Way goes".

Malachi 1:11. "For from where the sun rises to where it sets, My name is honored among the nations, and everywhere incense and pure oblation are offered to My name; for My name is honored among the nations"

Isaiah 2: "For the day of the LORD of hosts shall be upon every one that is proud and lofty, and upon every one that is lifted up; and he shall be brought low" (Isaiah 2:12). Amos 5:18-20: "Woe to you who long for the day of the LORD! Why do you long for the day of the LORD? That day will be darkness, not light" (Amos 5:18).
 
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