The following things about your religion aren't special...

[Blackdog22]

So upon studying and exploring quite a number of religions on a personal level I have come to the conclusion that religion is nothing more than a mindset that exists when people put complete faith in a concept. That is, none of what you are experiencing is unique to your religion, it exists within all religions, it can be said, it is simply an aspect of human beings.

Lets examine what I mean by this by going through several points I hear the most when someone argues that their religion must be right.

1: I can feel God! - Mmmhmm, I believe you believe that, I also believe every other religion I have come across in the last 15 years also believes that. When I speak to people who claim to have seen Gods, Aliens, hell, even fairies, they come across as very sincere. I wouldn't doubt their sincerity, however it is not unique to your belief, nor does it make it true. It means nothing at all given these facts. At least, nothing when it comes to any "reason" why your belief is true.

2: God speaks to me! - Again, I believe you believe that. So does everyone else. It is not special nor does it actually mean anything.

3: My Gods story is Unique, Jesus died for me! - Of course the story is unique, well not really, there have usually been similar stories previously that your story was likely based on, however, among current beliefs, it is unique. Of course it being unique also means every other religions story is unique as well. Spiderman is fairly unique, but unfortunately, this means nothing at all. Nor is it a reason to believe.

4: I like how it makes me feel - Sure, this is true of most religions. It means nothing for the truth of it, however it can be a good reason to believe, just be aware you could be living a lie to ease your pain.

5: I have faith! You just don't understand faith... - Terrorists have faith. Not only is there absolutely nothing virtuous about the concept of accepting things without evidence, it can be very dangerous (although not always). At the very least you are being willfully delusional for some form of benefit. This cannot be a healthy way to live. Either way, it is not a good reason to believe, the act of which would, and can only, be evidence for anything and everything....including every other religion....or say.....fairies...

So what is my point in all this? Did I come here just to make you feel bad about your beliefs? Or at least, attempt too? No, I didn't. I did this to show we are all spiraling around the same concepts, the same emotions, to prove that which is unprovable, and yet, no reason we have come up with is inherently unique to our religion. So why do people make special exceptions for only their religion, while demonstrably, denying that very same "evidence" as good reasons to believe in other religions? Further more, how is it not obvious that you are looking in the mirror playing a game that everyone else is playing, a game which is obviously full of holes, fallacies and errors. A game, deep down, you know has no conclusion?

EDIT: I should also add these were major points for why I believed, as well as major points as to why everyone I have spoken too for the last few years, has given for why they believe. It is not intended to encompass the abstract or every line of thought, nor was it meant to be. If your reasons for belief fall outside of these points, feel free to list them. I would love to get new insights

 

[Jeremiahcp]

So you decided what everyone in the world thinks, so that you can then tell them they are all wrong. This is how you delude yourself into believing you and your views are unique.

 

[Blackdog22]

So you decided what everyone in the world thinks, so that you can then tell them they are all wrong. This is how you delude yourself into believing you and your views are unique.

False. I am giving my experiences based on my life for the last 15 years. In no place do I say this covers everyone and every belief. It is merely speaking to people who hold these beliefs. It does however seem to encompass the vast majority of believers I have run into. However, please do tell me your reason for believing. Let me see how outside of my points you truly are.

I should also add, nothing about what I said is unique, nor did I claim it to be. Your post adds absolutely nothing to the topic.

 

[lovesong]

I agree that all (most) religions share some common themes like the ones you mentioned, but I disagree that no religion has uniqueness. Every religion is different, every religion has something that makes it different from all the others. And at one point, there were religions that did something new for the first time, which, at the time, did make them distinctly different from the others in a way that no religion has ever been before.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

False. I am giving my experiences based on my life for the last 15 years. In no place do I say this covers everyone and every belief. It is merely speaking to people who hold these beliefs. However, please do tell me your reason for believing. Let me see how outside of my points you truly are.

I like how you jump to the conclusion that I am a believer.

 

[Blackdog22]

I agree that all (most) religions share some common themes like the ones you mentioned, but I disagree that no religion has uniqueness. Every religion is different, every religion has something that makes it different from all the others. And at one point, there were religions that did something new for the first time, which, at the time, did make them distinctly different from the others in a way that no religion has ever been before.

I agree they are unique, but in that sense if every religion is unique they kind of fall into a place where none of them are unique. Its like if everyone is special, is anyone truly special? Isn't it all kind of the same thing in a different way attempting to be special? Moreover does it being special actually add anything or do anything for the validity of said belief? That is to say, if someone goes to the point of saying "well my story has Jesus!" as a point for why its true, or meaningful, then that can be said of all religions, as if one is unique, it is only unique because the story of another is unique by direct result. This would mean, if uniqueness is a trait worthy of praise, then all religions must be praised.

 

[SomeRandom]

I agree they are unique, but in that sense if every religion is unique they kind of fall into a place where none of them are unique. Its like if everyone is special, is anyone truly special? Isn't it all kind of the same thing in a different way attempting to be special? Moreover does it being special actually add anything or do anything for the validity of said belief? That is to say, if someone goes to the point of saying "well my story has Jesus!" as a point for why its true, or meaningful, then that can be said of all religions, as if one is unique, it is only unique because the story of another is unique by direct result. This would mean, if uniqueness is a trait worthy of praise, then all religions must be praised.

Isn't that like saying that since everyone is unique that no one really is?
True, hubris often comes into play. But religion is often more than mere faith. In folklore religions (especially in the East) it's so intertwined with cultural practices that it's hard to disentangle the two. One can be culturally a particular religion without being a follower, it becomes a heritage. A part of identity. Hell if one's mother is Jewish one is often "Half Jewish."
All religions seek to answer philosophical questions, to try to find the "best way to live ethically" and wanders around trying to bring out the best in humanity (or so it often claims.)
But just as religions are unique flavours so is the approach people have towards their religion or philosophy or what have you.

 

[Jeremiahcp]

Mmm, just wasting time then. Duly noted. How about jotting down something of substance for a change?

"How about jotting down something of substance for a change?"

Something of substance.

 

[Blackdog22]

Isn't that like saying that since everyone is unique that no one really is?
True, hubris often comes into play. But religion is often more than mere faith. In folklore religions (especially in the East) it's so intertwined with cultural practices that it's hard to disentangle the two. One can be culturally a particular religion without being a follower, it becomes a heritage. A part of identity. Hell if one's mother is Jewish one is often "Half Jewish."
All religions seek to answer philosophical questions, to try to find the "best way to live ethically" and wanders around trying to bring out the best in humanity (or so it often claims.)
But just as religions are unique flavours so is the approach people have towards their religion or philosophy or what have you.

You are correct. I also agree that some people believe more out of a guiding tool than actually, truly deep down, thinking it is true. Of course, this is just a step towards atheism and the death of religion imo. When your belief has become nothing more than an outdated guide book that humans/priests/popes/rabbis are updating for the here and now based on what we have learned as a society since then, it seems to have no place other than holding onto remnants of an idea out of respect.

My main point with the unique aspect, was more that, if a belief is held to be true BECAUSE its unique, then surely Islam must be correct because Muhammad is unique, or fairies must be correct because they are unique, Santa, talking noodles, Jesus.... etc.etc.

My hope is that if all of these pillars as to why, at least for me and those I know, believe in certain things, or hold strongly to certain ideas, then when they are knocked down, when nothing they hold can be said to be of any value objectively, then what exactly remains?

 

[lovesong]

I agree they are unique, but in that sense if every religion is unique they kind of fall into a place where none of them are unique. Its like if everyone is special, is anyone truly special? Isn't it all kind of the same thing in a different way attempting to be special? Moreover does it being special actually add anything or do anything for the validity of said belief? That is to say, if someone goes to the point of saying "well my story has Jesus!" as a point for why its true, or meaningful, then that can be said of all religions, as if one is unique, it is only unique because the story of another is unique by direct result. This would mean, if uniqueness is a trait worthy of praise, then all religions must be praised.

There was a time when reincarnation was a new idea, a time when the tenants of the left hand path were new ideas, and a time when the notion of gods themselves was a new idea. Were they not unique when they were first employed? Did that not make their founding religion very distinct and specifically special in a world that had never seen that belief before?

 

[Blackdog22]

There was a time when reincarnation was a new idea, a time when the tenants of the left hand path were new ideas, and a time when the notion of gods themselves was a new idea. Were they not unique when they were first employed? Did that not make their founding religion very distinct and specifically special in a world that had never seen that belief before?

It would of indeed made them unique, but that uniqueness would not be a selling point to why they were true. I seem to have wondered onto a point im not intentionally trying to make. I do agree religions are unique, it is just, to say "My religion has ____" and list that as a reason why you hold onto it as a true belief then you are logically failing. If uniqueness itself is a reasonable reason to believe, then all religions are therefore worthy of belief. This isn't to say you can't find certain ideas more appealing than others, it simply means there is nothing substantial as to why you hold onto these ideas as true, merely that they rang true for you. However if another idea rings true for someone else is that other idea suddenly true cancelling out your personal concept of faith? In the end, it means absolutely nothing. Just a brain attaching onto a concept.

I suppose I should rename this thread to "Give me one good reason why you believe!"

 

[Aštra’el]

Not every religion requires faith in unprovable myths or experiences, or belief in fantastical afterlife scenarios or realms or beings.

 

[Blackdog22]

Not every religion requires faith in unprovable myths or experiences, or belief in fantastical afterlife scenarios or realms or beings.

Yes, I do understand. However these beliefs are so few and far between they make up less than 1% of the population. I would like to conquer why 99%+ of the population finds concepts, that are really bad from my perspective, as reasonable reasons to believe. I then want to test those concepts against other religions to see if they find the same evidence they would use for their beliefs to be valid enough for another persons belief. Maybe once I find a good answer on the 99% ill start focusing on the more niche.

 

[lovesong]

It would of indeed made them unique, but that uniqueness would not be a selling point to why they were true. I seem to have wondered onto a point im not intentionally trying to make. I do agree religions are unique, it is just, to say "My religion has ____" and list that as a reason why you hold onto it as a true belief then you are logically failing. If uniqueness itself is a reasonable reason to believe, then all religions are therefore worthy of belief. This isn't to say you can't find certain ideas more appealing than others, it simply means there is nothing substantial as to why you hold onto these ideas as true, merely that they rang true for you. However if another idea rings true for someone else is that other idea suddenly true cancelling out your personal concept of faith? In the end, it means absolutely nothing. Just a brain attaching onto a concept.

I suppose I should rename this thread to "Give me one good reason why you believe!"

Ah, I see! I thought you were arguing a more negative position, like saying no religion is good or worthy because no religion is more special than another, or something to that extent. Your point that being different is not a good reason to accept it as truth is a good one because not only does every religion have its own unique aspects, but uniqueness does not mean true. I agree! Glad you cleared that up!

 

[SomeRandom]

You are correct. I also agree that some people believe more out of a guiding tool than actually, truly deep down, thinking it is true. Of course, this is just a step towards atheism and the death of religion imo. When your belief has become nothing more than an outdated guide book that humans/priests/popes/rabbis are updating for the here and now based on what we have learned as a society since then, it seems to have no place other than holding onto remnants of an idea out of respect.

My main point with the unique aspect, was more that, if a belief is held to be true BECAUSE its unique, then surely Islam must be correct because Muhammad is unique, or fairies must be correct because they are unique, Santa, talking noodles, Jesus.... etc.etc.

My hope is that if all of these pillars as to why, at least for me and those I know, believe in certain things, or hold strongly to certain ideas, then when they are knocked down, when nothing they hold can be said to be of any value objectively, then what exactly remains?

Who claims uniqueness in "Truth?" More often than not it's people who proselytize. Some religions see such acts as "sinful" or even simply rude, so again, not a complete picture you're painting.
What of religions that actively sees priests as just bearers of rituals? I mean at least 3 of the Dharmic religions don't usually put a lot of stock in scripture or books, rather just sort of trundle along, making changes as they go. And that's been going on for like 6,000 years or so. (I think Sikhism might be the only one which does stress following scripture. But I don't know, so don't quote me on that.)
I'm sure there are many different approaches Heathens and Pagans (and pagans) have to their own relevant scripture if they have such a thing in their specific tradition. I'll let actual practitioners of such religions speak for themselves, but you know, just saying.
The Abrahamics want the world to conform to their Holy Book/s. But that's not how every religion approaches reality. That's not even how all people approach their specific Holy Book (whether Abrahamic or not.)
I think you might be simplifying religious approaches to life a bit. Seems more grounded in Western thinking rather than actually worldly. Not every religious person needs or even follows any scripture. Not every religious person blindly follows so called "religious leaders." Some even actively discourage such robotic thinking.
Some religious people aren't even theists, to begin with! I've met many atheists at random prayer groups as a kid.
The world is not separated into religious folk and atheists. There's far more nuance than that.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

So upon studying and exploring quite a number of religions on a personal level I have come to the conclusion that religion is nothing more than a mindset that exists when people put complete faith in a concept. That is, none of what you are experiencing is unique to your religion, it exists within all religions, it can be said, it is simply an aspect of human beings.

Lets examine what I mean by this by going through several points I hear the most when someone argues that their religion must be right.

1: I can feel God! - Mmmhmm, I believe you believe that, I also believe every other religion I have come across in the last 15 years also believes that. When I speak to people who claim to have seen Gods, Aliens, hell, even fairies, they come across as very sincere. I wouldn't doubt their sincerity, however it is not unique to your belief, nor does it make it true. It means nothing at all given these facts. At least, nothing when it comes to any "reason" why your belief is true.

2: God speaks to me! - Again, I believe you believe that. So does everyone else. It is not special nor does it actually mean anything.

3: My Gods story is Unique, Jesus died for me! - Of course the story is unique, well not really, there have usually been similar stories previously that your story was likely based on, however, among current beliefs, it is unique. Of course it being unique also means every other religions story is unique as well. Spiderman is fairly unique, but unfortunately, this means nothing at all. Nor is it a reason to believe.

4: I like how it makes me feel - Sure, this is true of most religions. It means nothing for the truth of it, however it can be a good reason to believe, just be aware you are likely living a lie to ease your pain. An unfortunate reality.

5: I have faith! You just don't understand faith... - Terrorists have faith. Not only is there absolutely nothing virtuous about the concept of accepting things without evidence, it can be very dangerous (although not always). At the very least you are being willfully delusional for some form of benefit. This cannot be a healthy way to live. Either way, it is not a good reason to believe, the act of which would, and can only, be evidence for anything and everything....including every other religion....or say.....fairies...

So what is my point in all this? Did I come here just to make you feel bad about your beliefs? Or at least, attempt too? No, I didn't. I did this to show we are all spiraling around the same concepts, the same emotions, to prove that which is unprovable, and yet, no reason we have come up with is inherently unique to our religion. So why do people make special exceptions for only their religion, while demonstrably, denying that very same "evidence" as good reasons to believe in other religions? Further more, how is it not obvious that you are looking in the mirror playing a game that everyone else is playing, a game which is obviously full of holes, fallacies and errors. A game, deep down, you know has no conclusion?

EDIT: I should also add these were major points for why I believed, as well as major points as to why everyone I have spoken too for the last few years, has given for why they believe. It is not intended to encompass the abstract or every line of thought, nor was it meant to be. If your reasons for belief fall outside of these points, feel free to list them. I would love to get new insights

Pontificating on childish and self serving caricatures is intellectually shallow and tiresome. But thanks for sharing.

 

[Tumah]

Your religion isn't special. The following things aren't special about your religion

Fixed that for you.

 

[Blackdog22]

Pontificating on childish and self serving caricatures is intellectually shallow and tiresome. But thanks for sharing.

So you don't think such reasons for believing exist? I myself believed for these reasons because, in my mind, they were special to me and my God. It wasn't until I realized most religious people involved in religions across the world share these very same aspects. From my pov, it must be something inherent in humans when giving oneself over to an idea completely. It would be impossible to say this wasn't the case as it would be impossible to give yourself completely to 2 contradicting ideas, you can only ever see it from your own religions perspective.

If you find it to be shallow this is fine, but do explain why. Acting above people without actually demonstrating any reason why you should be seen as such comes across as quite shallow as well, but id also add void of thought.

Fixed that for you.

Mmm, yes, this would be more accurate. Ill change it actually!

edit: Actually, it appears I cannot

 

[Blackdog22]

Who claims uniqueness in "Truth?"

Many, many people. I of course would not claim all, but if you have not heard someone mention how amazing Jesus' sacrifice was (a unique aspect only to Christianity) and how without him and his sacrifice the entire religion wouldn't make sense, I would say you probably havent been to many western churches. Then again, you mention my pov is inbedded in the west which.... is where im from! So, yes, naturally it would be. I also know many Muslims and they also think their Quran is very special and unique and that the unique truths shared within as well as the self evident truths of Muhammad and Allah are why it should be believed. Between these 2 religions we have covered the majority of everyones beliefs on this planet. At least, generally, there are minor differences here and there. That isnt to say we have covered them all, or that im trying too, simply that, factually, this is the case. Just go randomly pick out someone from a church and ask them why they believe their religion is the word of God. I bet you find many will tell you aspects about their belief that are unique to that belief, such as Jesus.

More often than not it's people who proselytize. Some religions see such acts as "sinful" or even simply rude, so again, not a complete picture you're painting.
What of religions that actively sees priests as just bearers of rituals? I mean at least 3 of the Dharmic religions don't usually put a lot of stock in scripture or books, rather just sort of trundle along, making changes as they go. And that's been going on for like 6,000 years or so. (I think Sikhism might be the only one which does stress following scripture. But I don't know, so don't quote me on that.)
I'm sure there are many different approaches Heathens and Pagans (and pagans) have to their own relevant scripture if they have such a thing in their specific tradition. I'll let actual practitioners of such religions speak for themselves, but you know, just saying.
The Abrahamics want the world to conform to their Holy Book/s. But that's not how every religion approaches reality. That's not even how all people approach their specific Holy Book (whether Abrahamic or not.)
I think you might be simplifying religious approaches to life a bit. Seems more grounded in Western thinking rather than actually worldly. Not every religious person needs or even follows any scripture. Not every religious person blindly follows so called "religious leaders." Some even actively discourage such robotic thinking.
Some religious people aren't even theists, to begin with! I've met many atheists at random prayer groups as a kid.
The world is not separated into religious folk and atheists. There's far more nuance than that.

Aye, there are many different kinds of people. I am speaking in generalities and from my POV that I have personally experienced. I am open for other reasons why someone would think their particular religion is true. If its not in one of my points, I would be curious. Some of your post I dont feel like is addressing me in particular. I am not arguing people follow all religious leaders blindly or anything, nor am I ridiculing or assuming most people are trying to turn everyone Christian or Muslim, just attempting to give the best reasons I have heard for why people believe their personal religion is true and trying to make sense out of it from an objective pov when bringing all religions together.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Mmm, yes, this would be more accurate. Ill change it actually!

edit: Actually, it appears I cannot

But I can! Hope you were serious about wanting to change it...