The Disbelievers

[psychoslice]

Tribalism, dehumanizing people, etc. This idea that if people are different than you, they must all share a common set of negative traits. You call some people disbelievers but with respect to other religions, you're a disbeliever.

These things get old.

That was a good reply.

 

[SkylarHunter]

I wonder how verses 6:24-29 describing the disbelievers

Verse 6:24 says they invent the lies and believe it to be the truth.
Verse 6:25 says that they won't believe any sign showed to them and they regard religion as the myth of the ancient people.
Verse 6:26 says that they mislead themselves and the others.
Verse 6:27 says that they'll regret and wish if they were among the believers.
Verses 6:28 says that even if given more chance then they'll be back to their usual deeds
Verse 6:29 says that they used to deny the afterlife

See how they will lie about themselves. And lost from them will be what they used to invent. (6:24)

And among them are those who listen to you, but We have placed over their hearts coverings, lest they understand it, and in their ears deafness. And if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. Even when they come to you arguing with you, those who disbelieve say, "This is not but legends of the former peoples." (6:25)

​

And they prevent [others] from him and are [themselves] remote from him. And they do not destroy except themselves, but they perceive [it] not. (6:26)

If you could but see when they are made to stand before the Fire and will say, "Oh, would that we could be returned [to life on earth] and not deny the signs of our Lord and be among the believers." (6:27)

But what they concealed before has [now] appeared to them. And even if they were returned, they would return to that which they were forbidden; and indeed, they are liars. (6:28)

And they say, "There is none but our worldly life, and we will not be resurrected." (6:29)
​

The more posts I read from you, the more it seems to me that you don't understand Islam, there's a huge mess going on in your own head and you need to sort yourself out before trying to convert anyone else.

 

[FearGod]

The more posts I read from you, the more it seems to me that you don't understand Islam, there's a huge mess going on in your own head and you need to sort yourself out before trying to convert anyone else.

Those described in the verses and according to my understanding of the quran,they are non convertible.

Actually if they'll do,then the quran will be proven wrong.

 

[LuisDantas]

You realize that for most non-Muslims the Quran has indeed been proven wrong?

 

[FearGod]

You realize that for most non-Muslims the Quran has indeed been proven wrong?

No i didn't realize that they were able to prove it wrong.
What evidences you got ?

 

[Bunyip]

No i didn't realize that they were able to prove it wrong.
What evidences you got ?

Why ask? You will excuse any error regardless.

 

[psychoslice]

All religions are trying to prove each other wrong, everyone knows that.

 

[LuisDantas]

No i didn't realize that they were able to prove it wrong.
What evidences you got ?

Haven't we talked about it already?

My own testimony is proof enough, at least for me. It says things about disbelievers and atheists that I know for a fact to be unfair and untrue. Therefore I also know for a fact that the Quran is not the pure and infallible word from God.

 

[LuisDantas]

All religions are trying to prove each other wrong, everyone knows that.

That is not really all that true. Often true, I will grant, but hardly always.

Particularly among pagans and sometimes among Dharmas it is fairly easy to find practicioners that do not much bother with such things.

 

[psychoslice]

That is not really all that true. Often true, I will grant, but hardly always.

Particularly among pagans and sometimes among Dharmas it is fairly easy to find practicioners that do not much bother with such things.

Yes sorry, you are right, but you know which ones I mean.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Regardless of religion i believe that doing good deeds and have some faith on next life isn't a problem,but not believing and even preaching the others as not to believe and motivate women to sell their bodies as source of income if they have to is a problematic to me.



I think all religions are instructing about morals and ethics,so i don't have to worry if i know what is good and what is bad.

"Good deeds" can considerably vary depending on which religion's perspective you're speaking from, though.

• Buddhism doesn't place nearly as much weight on the need to believe in a deity or deities as a lot of other religions do. One can be an atheist and not believe in any sort of next life and still be a Buddhist, as far as I know. In your view, does belief in an afterlife matter so much that even a person who was benevolent and helpful to others in this one would be sent to Hell in the next just because they didn't believe that people went to a posthumous realm of existence?

• A lot of Pagan religions don't usually have the sort of dogma that seems to permeate certain forms of organized religion, so they can encompass people who believe it's perfectly okay not to believe in any deities or afterlives. The emphasis on things like a person's sexual activity as a measure of their supposed status in the next life isn't a doctrine that is shared by many religions; in fact, it seems to be a lot more emphasized by Abrahamic religions compared to dharmic ones, for example.

• A lot of Christians have no problem with consuming alcoholic drinks. Actually, sometimes drinking wine is even a part of Christian rituals. Your stance on consuming alcohol seems to be one of total condemnation, though, so that's another aspect where your beliefs differ from other religious people's despite sharing belief in a deity as well as an afterlife.

• You seem to be lumping non-belief, and I assume specifically non-belief in a deity or deities, with encouraging prostitution. But there are a lot of non-religious people who think that prostitution is unhealthy and risky as well; it's just that their views aren't usually inspired by religious doctrine. Furthermore, saying that people should be free to practice prostitution if they choose to do so of their own accord isn't the same as saying that prostitution is a desirable thing. Disagreeing with something doesn't necessitate forbidding everyone from doing it if they don't have an issue with it themselves.

And it is natural thing among animals to rape and to have sex by force,so can we apply it among humans too and as not to be a sin but a natural thing that happens among animals.

I specifically said, "The point is that there's a lot of evidence demonstrating that homosexuality is a perfectly natural and healthy sexual orientation, unlike how a lot of people characterize it. [...]" Obviously, rape isn't healthy at all.

But still there are many families regardless of religion respecting the marriage bonds and avoiding sex before marriage.

What do you think the purpose of sex ? some minutes of enjoyment or to bring up a family or both,if both then it means marriage and children.

I think the answer to the question of what purpose sexual activity serves in this particular context mainly depends on what the people who are engaged in it want.

• Some people mainly have sex for reproductive purposes, but that doesn't necessitate marrying each other. There are cohabiting couples in happy, healthy relationships who see no need to sign a marriage contract.

• Some people have sex for enjoyment, bonding, and socialization. That doesn't mean having just "some minutes of enjoyment"; lack of interest in having an offspring doesn't mean that all of any given person's sexual activity becomes casual. Likewise, being interested in having or actually having an offspring doesn't rule out the possibility of having sex for other purposes as well, like the ones I mentioned.

• Having sex for reproductive purposes doesn't mean a given person doesn't also engage in it for enjoyment, bonding, and socialization. None of these purposes are mutually exclusive or else people would stop having sex altogether after begetting children, which is clearly not the case for most.

Yes using condoms properly , antibacterial creams and alcohol before and after sex.

Your poking fun at the idea of sex education tells me that your objections to sex are primarily rooted in dogma rather than anything else.

So you motivate freedom of sex,may i ask you a question ?

Do you accept your daughter to have sex with her boyfriend and then after one month they are separated and then to have it with a new boyfriend, please a sincere reply

"Accept" as in, "allow her"? Of course; I don't believe in restricting adults from making decisions concerning their lives for themselves. However, I would definitely try to ensure that she wasn't manipulated, coerced, or otherwise pushed into having sex without being fully aware of and informed about the risks of having sex, the proper safety measures to avoid them, and the notion of informed consent.

I would do the same thing if I had a son.

Which minorities and how being hateful to them.

Sexual minorities, such as homosexuals and bisexuals. A lot of the opposition to their rights as well as the mere acknowledgement of their existence comes from religious groups. It seems to me that there's definitely a lot of merit in opposing beliefs that cause people to discriminate against others without any justification that is grounded in evidence or logic.

The quran is talking about specific disbelievers,the ones working against God's message,not all disbelievers are doing the same.

And what's your point? I would say a lot of believers do more harm to their beliefs than any disbeliever could by giving a hateful, malevolent image of their religions from the inside. Do they also get punished for that?

Why ?there are some countries banned prostitution such as Sweden and even some states in the US.

That's a separate debate in and of itself. I would have to see the specific reasons given for the bans to determine whether or not I was in favor of them.

I suspect the bans on prostitution in those places (at least in Sweden) aren't motivated by religious beliefs, though, unlike the case with a lot of other countries.

Believing that God is One and do exist,then no,i wouldn't be worried in the next life.

But what if Yahweh becomes angry that you accepted Islam instead of any other religion? Maybe he doesn't really appreciate monotheism unless you believe in him out of all the other deities.

So we can't disprove God's existence

Sure. We also can't "disprove" the existence of dragons or unicorns. That doesn't mean there's any considerable probability that they exist, though.

The quran point to one fact that the disbelievers deny the clear signs and then bring false evidences and lies just to mislead others,my question is why the disbelievers need to preach against God's existence,why not letting those who believes and have faith to discuss which religion have more truth,as for the atheists,they don't have a religion to discuss.

I don't think belief in a god or gods per se is a problem; I believe that some teachings and doctrines of certain religions are the problem, and I expanded on that in an earlier post.

A lot of religions and religious people heavily emphasize the need to preach and spread their beliefs. Generally, Mormons are pretty vigorous when it comes to that, as are Jehovah's Witnesses. There are many Muslim preachers as well, and they seem to be viewed positively by most "mainstream" Muslims.

Certain religious dogmas have a lot of effects on societies that include believers as well as non-believers, so it seems reasonable and possibly even expected that the latter would try to make their voices heard when it comes to those dogmas. When most people in a given society say that it's not okay for LGBT people to have equal rights, for example, or that non-believers should obey religious laws regardless of whether or not they believe in them, religion stops being the concern of religious people only.

If you lived in a society that tried to impose the laws of a religion other than Islam on you, a religion in which you were considered a non-believer, I'm pretty sure you'd also be concerned about that religion regardless of whether or not you believed in it.

 

[Ingledsva]

And what was the out come of it,millions are suffering from Aids all around the world,some even not aware that they are living with it.

CDC warns gay men of ‘epidemic’ HIV rates

by Thaddeus Baklinski


WASHINGTON, DC, July 8, 2013 (LifeSiteNews.com) - A fact sheet released at the end of June by the US Centers for Disease Control (CDC) warns that HIV rates, already at epidemic proportions, are continuing to climb steadily among men who have sex with men (MSM).

Despite the disturbing data, the United States' leading gay advocacy organizations - known pejoratively as "Gay Inc." by some HIV activists - barely make mention of or allocate any resources towards fighting the scourge, instead focusing on things like passing gay "marriage," fighting anti-gay bullying, and "fostering positive places of worship," according to US News.

"The recent rise of HIV/AIDS ... is huge and it's not talked about because 'Gay Inc.' says nothing about it," Peter Staley, founder of the Treatment Action Group, told US News.
The CDC states that their analysis did not examine the factors driving the increases in HIV/AIDS in MSM.

LifeSiteNews Mobile | CDC warns gay men of ‘epidemic’ HIV rates

Not this crap again!


The majority of people in the world with HIV/AIDS are heterosexual, not homosexual.


HIV/AIDS did not start with homosexuals either!


Get a clue!



*

 

[psychoslice]

I'm glad you sorted that out Ingledsva , the ignorance that they feed the church sickens me.

 

[Triumphant_Loser]

I'm glad you sorted that out Ingledsva , the ignorance that they feed the church sickens me.

Well... "Mosque" in this case, but yeah... I agree. Should we bother to tell him about how lesbians have a lower HIV rate than straight people? Allah must love lesbians more.

 

[Penumbra]

Have a look on world suicide rate

And this concludes...what?

Suicide rates can be due to all sorts of things, including religious fear-based claims for people that do it, or including cultures that have a history of suicide being considered socially acceptable in some cases. Only a tiny fraction of people commit suicide even in those high suicide countries, so that's less than 1% of people, which is a poor sample of the overall well-being of people in those cultures. How about the other 99%?

Look at the world happiness report. It's an international overview of self-reported happiness in most countries with large sample sizes. The Middle East has among the lowest scores of self-reported happiness in the world. They also have among the lowest rates of income-adjusted donations to charity in the world.

The happiest countries on the list are in western/northern Europe, which also happen to be among the least religious countries in the world.

 

[FearGod]

And this concludes...what?

Suicide rates can be due to all sorts of things, including religious fear-based claims for people that do it, or including cultures that have a history of suicide being considered socially acceptable in some cases. Only a tiny fraction of people commit suicide even in those high suicide countries, so that's less than 1% of people, which is a poor sample of the overall well-being of people in those cultures. How about the other 99%?

Look at the world happiness report. It's an international overview of self-reported happiness in most countries with large sample sizes. The Middle East has among the lowest scores of self-reported happiness in the world. They also have among the lowest rates of income-adjusted donations to charity in the world.

The happiest countries on the list are in western/northern Europe, which also happen to be among the least religious countries in the world.

Statistics for happiness is a silly one in my opinion.

Happiness can never be fixed,i am happy now but not sure about the next hours.

You are picking up the countries to support your irrational views.

What about North Korea ?

Then talking about income according to religion,that has nothing to do with religion,for example Qatar which is a Muslim country is ranked number one in GDP (PPP).

 

[Bunyip]

Statistics for happiness is a silly one in my opinion.

Happiness can never be fixed,i am happy now but not sure about the next hours.

You are picking up the countries to support your irrational views.

What about North Korea ?

Then talking about income according to religion,that has nothing to do with religion,for example Qatar which is a Muslim country is ranked number one in GDP (PPP).

North Korea is a theocracy, the Dear Leader is god.

 

[FearGod]

North Korea is a theocracy, the Dear Leader is god.

As a communist nation, North Korea is officially non-religious.

Reference: North Korea | Facts and History

 

[Bunyip]

As a communist nation, North Korea is officially non-religious.

Officially yes, in reality they thank the Dear Leader when the weather is nice and worship statues of him.

 

[Breathe]

North Korea is a theocracy, the Dear Leader is god.

I'd say it's closer to a... politico-ideocracy? While I agree there is a cult of personality around the Dear Leader and his people, I don't think they truly regard them as 'god' or 'gods' in an accurate sense. They have just usurped God and placed themselves there, which seems to happen a lot with communist movements, which is why I think it acts as a form of proxy religion for many.

Officially yes, in reality they thank the Dear Leader when the weather is nice and worship statues of him.

I don't think this is true; do you have a source on this?