The Darwin Fish

[Youtellme]

Wow, what have I started? One of the shortest thread intros and BANG! Anyway, I see the fish on cars in the UK and think they are born again christians. I don't think they represent creationists etc.

 

[Copernicus]

So are you saying that the general public in America ( which I would qualify as "throughout the country") does or does not perceive it this way?

I am saying that the general public does, in my opinion. Obviously, others disagree with me. You have not seriously responded to my direct challenge about what Christian symbols you associate with creationism. I believe that that has more to do with what you want to admit than that you simply have no idea how to answer that question.

Honestly, this is pretty easy. If you mean that some people see it this way, then say "some people see this way".

That is entailed in the meaning of "most people see it this way", which is what I believe.

If you mean that some Christian conservatives are fundamentalists, then say that.

I believe what I said--that the most salient component of Christian conservatives are fundamentalists. And, BTW, I also believe that most fundamentalists believe in creationism, albeit not necessarily the YEC variety. I'm not backing away from anything I've said, just with the distorted way in which you present it.

Leave the broad brush in the paint can.

Erm, if anyone has spattered paint where it doesn't belong, it is you.

Oh, I'm sure some do. I just don't assume that everyone who displays such a well-established Christian symbol has such motives.

Nor do I, but I do tend to think that about the individuals inside when I see it on a car. The display of such a symbol on one's car is usually for the purpose of sending a message to those who see it. Youtellme sees such people as "born again Christians" rather than creationists in the UK. That is another common conclusion that folks have jumped to when they have seen such a symbol, especially back in the days when the symbol had less political connotation.

 

[Tarheeler]

I am saying that the general public does, in my opinion. Obviously, others disagree with me.

That is entailed in the meaning of "most people see it this way", which is what I believe.

I believe what I said--that the most salient component of Christian conservatives are fundamentalists. And, BTW, I also believe that most fundamentalists believe in creationism, albeit not necessarily the YEC variety. I'm not backing away from anything I've said, just with the distorted way in which you present it.

Erm, if anyone has spattered paint where it doesn't belong, it is you.

See, now you're clarifying things.
If you had chosen to use those qualifiers at the beginning, we wouldn't have had this conversation.

You have not seriously responded to my direct challenge about what Christian symbols you associate with creationism. I believe that that has more to do with what you want to admit than that you simply have no idea how to answer that question.

Probably because I haven't responded to it in any way, serious or not.

I don't associate any Christian symbols with creationism. All the symbols I can think of (cross, fish, crown of thorns, ect.) I associate with Christianity in general. Creationism is a very specific idea that can reach across denominations and even religions; it's not restricted any one group.

 

[Copernicus]

If you had chosen to use those qualifiers at the beginning, we wouldn't have had this conversation.

Nor would we have had it if you had asked for clarification rather than paraphrasing what I said inaccurately.

I don't associate any Christian symbols with creationism. All the symbols I can think of (cross, fish, crown of thorns, ect.) I associate with Christianity in general. Creationism is a very specific idea that can reach across denominations and even religions; it's not restricted any one group.

And you do not associate the Darwin fish with creationism? Or associate the Darwin fish symbol to the Ichthys symbol when you see it? If you answer no to those questions (which are rhetorical, in any case), then I think you are in the minority. It is just such associations that have moved the public to see the Ichthys as part of the creationism controversy. And that was the essential point that I was trying to make.

 

[Tarheeler]

Nor would we have had it if you had asked for clarification rather than paraphrasing what I said inaccurately.


And you do not associate the Darwin fish with creationism? Or associate the Darwin fish symbol to the Ichthys symbol when you see it? If you answer no to those questions (which are rhetorical, in any case), then I think you are in the minority. It is just such associations that have moved the public to see the Ichthys as part of the creationism controversy. And that was the essential point that I was trying to make.

No, I associate the "Darwin" fish with the theory of evolution.

And I think you're in the minority. As I said earlier, you are the only person I've ever known to assert that the fish was a symbol of creationism.

 

[Copernicus]

No, I associate the "Darwin" fish with the theory of evolution.

Really? No association with the Ichthys symbol that it was designed to caricature? I anticipated that response. I find it hard to believe, but others may find it easier to believe you.

And I think you're in the minority. As I said earlier, you are the only person I've ever known to assert that the fish was a symbol of creationism.

Then you don't get out much. The bumper sticker wars have been going on for quite some time: Darwin and Jesus Fish Wars Debate on Car Bumpers: Science and Religion, Atheist vs. Christian Symbols, Designs, Decals.

 

[Tarheeler]

Really? No association with the Ichthys symbol that it was designed to caricature? I anticipated that response. I find it hard to believe, but others may find it easier to believe you.

None, other than one was a play on the other. After all, it would be kind of hard to turn a cross or crown of thorns in a caricature for evolution, no? But I don't associate the fish with creationism. I think of the last supper (specifically) when I see it.

Then you don't get out much. The bumper sticker wars have been going on for quite some time: Darwin and Jesus Fish Wars Debate on Car Bumpers: Science and Religion, Atheist vs. Christian Symbols, Designs, Decals.

Maybe not.

Or maybe people down here don't see the need to put ridiculous stickers on their cars.

 

[Copernicus]

Or maybe people down here don't see the need to put ridiculous stickers on their cars.

If I lived down there, I suppose that I would worry about leaving the car parked in a public place with a Darwin sticker on it.

 

[Skwim]

There's no such thing as a "Creation Fish." It's called a Jesus Fish.

 

[fantome profane]

If you had to pick a symbol that was representative of the creationist movement, what symbol would you pick?

.....

 

[The Neo Nerd]

Ever wonder why they never say FACT?????

-Q

 

[ellenjanuary]

What happened here? Some Myspace R&P flashback?

I don't know any Creationists here in the desert, but I see Jesus fish all over. I assume they're just Christian; the valley is full of 'em.

 

[Engyo]

My favorite:

 

[tumbleweed41]

Of interest. The EvolveFISH company is based right here in the heart of ultra-conservative Colorado Springs.

 

[IAMDONE]

Watch Mr.Garrison explain evolution.
We are very obviously the retarded offspring of 5 monkies having butt sex with a fish squirrel.
I am not being sarcastic either...
Look at us.

 

[Klaufi_Wodensson]

I just saw a lot of pictures of those "fish" and decided to throw one in here.

Spoiler: May be offensive

 

[Tarheeler]

I just saw a lot of pictures of those "fish" and decided to throw one in here.

Too bad it was the other way around, huh?

The Christianization of Norway under the Olafs was a terrible thing.