The concept of fate/destiny/a divine plan

[blackout]

Came up in another thread. What are your thoughts on it? I believe our lives are ours to do as we please with and nothing is pre-determined.

I also agree.

 

[blackout]

Greetings!

We Baha'is definitely believe God has a plan for humanity; and indeed, one of our volumes of scripture is titled Tablets of the Divine Plan!

Best!

Bruce

If there is ANY "divine plan",
it would be that each individual
realize/REALize their own divinity.

At which point
you make your own "divine plans".

 

[blackout]

I don't believe either free will or destiny is absolute.

Are you familiar with the metaphor of history as a tapestry? Because the easiest way to say it is that we spin our own threads, but someone else does the weaving.

That's nice Storm, I like it.

I do experience the UniVerse as Sentient, and Magical.
Each life is a "thread" in a larger tapestry.
Sometimes the UniVerse weaves us together.
We also can purposefully weave our threads together.

I also like to think we can begin entirely new tapestries...
though the material from which we weave...
is always the "given".

 

[BruceDLimber]

My opinion is that we aren't here for any specific purpose; we just live and die.

OK, then; we disagree because it's my understanding that we do indeed have clear purpose here (two of them, to be specific)!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings.

If there is ANY "divine plan",
it would be that each individual
realize/REALize their own divinity.

We disagree because we draw a clear distinction between humans and the Divine!

Peace,

Bruce

 

[Octavia156]

The Philosophy of Thelema has a specific answer to this question, and has solved the problem of Free Will vs Determinism (for me anyway!)

Its not going to work for everyone because it requires a belief in the concept of a Soul in some form or another.

Thelemites believe that everyone incarnates with a 'True Will'. This is akin to the idea of a 'destiny' or a 'reason to be'. However, such is the human condition that we have Free Will. Thus man has the choice whether or not to fulfill his destiny (should he discover it).

A Thelemite is encouraged to discover his destiny and to do that and nothing else.

Thus we believe in Free Will and True Will - something that is determined prior to incarnation.

There is no such thing as Fate - Man has complete responsibility over whether or not he fulfills his destiny, something which relies solely on the choices he makes: Success is thy proof

we spin our own threads, but someone else does the weaving.

Love this metaphor!!

In Thelema the weaver is personified by the metaphor of The Holy Guardian Angel. In Thelemaic mystic schools, aspirants are assisted in attaining 'the ultimate mystical ecstacy of conversing with the HGA' , this process. in your metaphor would be like getting a look at the whole tapestry, and then being conscious of how each and every thread we spin relates to the tapestry in its entirity.

 

[McBell]

OK, then; we disagree because it's my understanding that we do indeed have clear purpose here (two of them, to be specific)!

Really?
And what would those two purposes be?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

OK, then; we disagree because it's my understanding that we do indeed have clear purpose here (two of them, to be specific)!

Peace,

Bruce

Please expand on this, what do you believe these two purposes are?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

We have enough knowlege and history now, to say pretty much, everything humans do, and how we do it, is pre-determined into the future. History is one of lifes best teachers.

The Australian aboriginal have a very old truism which goes like this; the cycle of life will unfold as it should, according to the path that we walk.

In science we know, every action has an equal and opposite reaction. This also applies to the human psyche. For every choice (action), there is a list of probable outcomes (reaction). In making a choice, we have in fact, pre-determined the future, due to the probable outcomes which can be derived from it.

This logic leaves no room for the unexpected.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

God's two purposes for humanity according to the Baha'i scriptures are these:

• As individuals, we're to acquire the spiritual virtues we'll need both here and in the Next Life.
• And in aggregate, we're to carry forward an ever-advancing, spiritually-based civilization.

Best!

Bruce

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

Greetings!

God's two purposes for humanity according to the Baha'i scriptures are these:

• As individuals, we're to acquire the spiritual virtues we'll need both here and in the Next Life.
• And in aggregate, we're to carry forward an ever-advancing, spiritually-based civilization.

Best!

Bruce

Where does that leave people that aren't spiritual?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I believe it's both. You have free will some of the time, but if God really wants your life to go in a certain direction, you can't stop it.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

I believe it's both. You have free will some of the time, but if God really wants your life to go in a certain direction, you can't stop it.

And how are you supposed to tell when it's you making the choice from when it's God?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

It just feels like you're supposed to do it. Like you can't rightly do anything else.

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

It just feels like you're supposed to do it. Like you can't rightly do anything else.

There is always a choice. Even when it feels like you're "supposed to" do something, you can choose not to.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Well sometimes you're forced into it by unfortunate circumstances too

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

You're not forced into anything. Even when unfortunate circumstances cause you to choose the best option for yourself, it's still a concious decision that you are making as an individual, there's no power telling you to do this except your own logic.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

ISLAM you mean you've never had times in your life where you just felt like you was supposed to be somewhere? Then you went to that place and something happened? Or your being in that place saved you from something?

 

[I.S.L.A.M617]

ISLAM you mean you've never had times in your life where you just felt like you was supposed to be somewhere? Then you went to that place and something happened? Or your being in that place saved you from something?

Not at all. I have made a series of concious decisions in my life that have led me to this point. I don't feel like there's something outside of my power guiding me anywhere, I do what I want.

 

[McBell]

Greetings!

God's two purposes for humanity according to the Baha'i scriptures are these:

• As individuals, we're to acquire the spiritual virtues we'll need both here and in the Next Life.
• And in aggregate, we're to carry forward an ever-advancing, spiritually-based civilization.

Best!

Bruce

Are you in agreement with these two proposed purposes?