1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured The Bible - Why Trust It

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by nPeace, Jul 8, 2018.

  1. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Let's go over your worst mistake first. Tyre was not destroyed. The prophecy failed there.
     
  2. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    6,183
    Ratings:
    +1,737
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
  3. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Yes, but not by Nebuchadnezzar. Failed prophecy.

    Edit: Your second source uses the "Old Tyre" claim. That arose from Christian historians that realized how Tyre was a problem. But if you study the are, or even read the Bible, you will see that Tyre always was the (at that time) island. It was the source of wealth. It was a natural port. The land was where the "settlements" were. Those were destroyed by Nebby.
     
    #943 Subduction Zone, Jan 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
  4. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    6,183
    Ratings:
    +1,737
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    So you were wrong the first time. Thanks.
    Now read the prophecy again, and see that it was not to be completely destroyed by one king or nation. That's where readers make the mistake.
    Please read it again.
    Thus, the prophecy was fulfilled.
     
  5. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
    No, I was right the first time.

    Zeke prophecized about Nebby, not Alex.

    You did not understand the Bible verses. I can help you with that.
     
  6. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Using my tablet, but later I will link some articles using my desktop. Tyre was attacked many times before and after Nebby. That would make Alex's attack an expected event. Do you remember the standards for a prophecy?
     
  7. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    6,183
    Ratings:
    +1,737
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    No, please... and I am not going to engage in any childish argument with you - No yes No Yes.
    You said Tyre was not destroyed. It was. you were wrong. Don't lie.
    If anything, just say you made a mistake, and really meant to say, "Tyre was not destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar."
    I will accept you made a mistake. Pride and ego, are not trophies.

    The prophecy says...
    (Ezekiel 26:3-5) 3 therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘Here I am against you, O Tyre, and I will bring up many nations against you, just as the sea brings up its waves. 4They will destroy the walls of Tyre and tear down her towers, and I will scrape away soil and make her a shining, bare rock. 5 She will become a drying yard for dragnets in the midst of the sea.’. . .

    Understand that you did not write the prophecy, so it's not the writer's fault that you got it wrong.
    Based on the scriptures, the prophecy came true accurately.

    After the prophecy was uttered...
    Tyre, Lebanon - Wikipedia
    Babylonian period (612-539 BCE)
    Persian period (539-332 BCE)

    Prophecy fulfilled. Done
    Have your last word on this, as usual.
    I'll move on to the next strawman.
     
  8. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
    You need to drop the rudeness. You are simply wrong.

    Nebby was a "king of kings". He was the "many nations".

    You lost.
     
  9. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    6,183
    Ratings:
    +1,737
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Wow. Who supplied you with such a brilliant interpretation. One king = many nations. :D
    Surely it wasn't God.
    I will not laugh. :smirk:
     
  10. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
    You don't understand the Bible when it uses poetic language. Nebby was the head of what was considered many nations in those days.
     
  11. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2018
    Messages:
    6,183
    Ratings:
    +1,737
    Religion:
    Follower of Christ
    Now, I will laugh. :laughing:
    Next strawman, when I return. Later.
     
  12. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
    You should study the history of Tyre. It was attacked quite often before and after Nebby. It was a prized possession. Predicting that it would be attacked was not hard to do at all. That it would fall sooner or later was a given.
     
  13. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
    You lost and you laugh?


    By the way, you do not know what a strawman is either. Try again.
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
  15. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    13,292
    Ratings:
    +4,387
    Religion:
    Christian

    Biblical Errancy: Ezekiel's Prophecy of Tyre: a failed ...
    Biblical Errancy: April 2012ezekiels-prophecy-of-tyre-failed.html
    Finally, the prophecy refers to Tyre as a whole—not to some edge of it! Tyreʼs negotiated settlement certainly did not give away the store; Baal, the son of Tyreʼs king, Ithobaal, succeeded him …
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Let's go.back to this. Even the part that you quoted failed. By your own sources it was not scraped bare. Parts of the old city still exist as ruins. Alex did not flatten the city. He defeated it.

    And if you want a thorough debunking of the failed prophecy, including the parts that you missed you could read this. Or we could go over how badly it fails here:

    Biblical Errancy: Ezekiel's Prophecy of Tyre: a failed prophecy
     
  17. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2017
    Messages:
    32,713
    Ratings:
    +19,192
    Religion:
    Atheist
  19. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2014
    Messages:
    1,341
    Ratings:
    +677
    That is a good question and one that I would tend to think is an unguided process. In fact I think most thinks are unguided, but have the illusion of being guided.

    The question is not whether God can decide the rules or not. Its whether the are morally right or not, based on our judgement.

    Just because he don't like something and claim to right about it, doesn't mean that he is. Especially when you have lots of people (Especially atheists) disagreeing with it being so.
    Since that is the case, clearly it is possible to adresse these claims in a constructive way by putting them up for debate. Even if one look at the laws found in most countries, we have made rules that support the idea, that one is not allowed to kill homosexsuals due to what God think is morally right.

    How is that?
    Why are there not millions and millions of Christians on the street protesting and demanding that this should be changed, if its clearly the moral right thing to do?

    No, why should I? Its the same on both sides.

    I mean that free will have to work in accordance to physical laws. When the US dropped the atom bomb on Nagasaki for instant a person standing right where the bomb felt would have no chance of surviving. If such person however did survive a direct hit from such bomb, I would consider it an unexplained reason.

    The mere fact, that the forces released from such blast would instantly kill them, as their body wouldn't be able to withstand it, would make it a miracle or intervention by something.

    But that is not the case, because it is perfectly explainable why this person is going down rather than up. That is why one have to work within the limits of physical laws.

    If God stops someone from doing something, then one can not argue that there is any such thing as free will. Or at least it would be completely meaningless as you would have no clue when and when not God would choose to interfere.

    No, im clearly not. If that were the case, I would have used examples with people shooting beams out of their eyes etc.

    Im far from certain that we do have free will. But that is besides the point, because im not the one claiming we have free will. The bible claims that we have, because God told us so. (Hope you see the irony in that) :)

    For instant, we do not choose what we like or what we don't like when it comes to flavours. No one have ever chosen that they like strawberries more than bananas. In fact most things we choose to do in life, is based on passed experiences rather than freely choosing what to do.

    First of all I would be extremely surprised. Next I would question it, maybe they are wearing some new high protective suit that im not aware of. And to me that is the big difference, I would not just jump to the conclusion that it must be supernatural, but rather I would look for explanations.

    Secondly, I would make sure that people I trust could also witness it and get their opinion as well. If it turned out that these people could in fact jump in and out of hot lava, then I would have no issue changing m mind.

    It depends on the situation. So obviously in some cases he would interfere with someone's free will.

    Well that is basically the idea of a prophecy isn't it?

    If it weren't, what is the difference between a guess and prophecy?
     
  20. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    14,248
    Ratings:
    +6,633
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    Virtually all cities in the Middle East were burned, destroyed and sieged at one time or the another. Nothing unusual in the Middle East or anywhere else in the world for that matter. The old walled city where the old temple was on the island was never under water. only part of the city in part of the harbour just Southwest of the island is submerged. Like many ancient building the ruins of the Temple of Tyre still exist.
     
    #960 shunyadragon, Jan 11, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2020
Loading...