The Emperor of Mankind
Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
I was hoping this thread advocated an RF Communist Party. I am now sad.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
The answer is a communist party
- Thread starter Anthem
- Start date
It's a choice of last resort, usually when capitalists have gotten too stubborn for their own good.
The thing is, if you could go back in time to say, 1907 in Russia - ten years before the Revolution - what would you advise them to do to prevent the rise of communism?
I'll side with the stubborn capitalists.
The leaders will always be terrible and incompetent. That should be assumed.
So if we're talking about systems of governance, we need a system that assumes incompetence and should try to mitigate this fact.
All the communists here should really be thinking in terms of "do I really want Donald Trump to have that much power over the economy??" and be examining their preferred system from there.
Well, since Donald Trump is an avowed capitalist (as were all his predecessors of both parties), then I'm not sure if that's the right question.
Really, it would be so easy for capitalists to avoid the rise of communism (or even the threat of such), if only they'd be willing to be honest, decent, and not so greedy. Apparently, that's too much to ask of them. They'd rather see entire countries turned upside down rather than pay an extra dime in wages. That's how self-destructive these people are.
We're talking about people who brought the entire world to the brink of nuclear destruction all because they want to feed their insatiable greed.
At least communists, as imperfect as they might be, try to do right by the people. At least their heart is in the right place, unlike capitalists (who have no hearts). Communists think in terms of what's good for all the people, whereas capitalists are narcissistic and greedy - only thinking about themselves.
It's for that reason alone that communists hold the moral high ground.
The moral high ground sure has a lot of bodies.
Duke_Leto
Active Member
As opposed to liberalism, that peaceful bringer of secular democracy to the brown, uncivilized masses of the world?
@Revoltingest too.
How many bodies do you think capitalism is responsible for? I'm sure it would be a lot higher than the communists if we count every non-communist regime which has existed since the Sumerians.
A more complete list: List of famines - Wikipedia
We still have famines even in the 21st century.
But since you're interested so much in counting bodies, this site might be of interest: Twentieth Century Atlas - Death Tolls
Within that site is this page (Twentieth Century Atlas - Historical Body Count), where I found the following chart:
(The formatting doesn't work, so I'll go through these individually)
I would say WW2 has to be blamed on the capitalists.
Running Total:
Capitalists: 66,000,000
Communists: 0
Okay, so that's communist.
Capitalists: 66,000,000
Communists: 40,000,000
But, Mao is only tied for second:
Genghis Khan was clearly not a communist.
The Mongols were something not unlike the Mafia. As long as you paid them tribute and respect, they left you alone. That's capitalism, so...
Capitalists: 106,000,000
Communists: 40,000,000
And the British are/were very much capitalist, so another 27,000,000 for the capitalists.
Capitalists: 133,000,000
Communists: 40,000,000
Not much to say here, except they probably weren't communists, therefore...
Capitalists: 158,000,000
Communists: 40,000,000
Wow, the capitalists have a commanding lead here, and we haven't even gotten to Stalin yet.
A lot of turmoil in China, but it was before Mao and the Communists, so...
Capitalists: 178,000,000
Communists: 40,000,000
And that brings us to...
Yep, there he is.
Capitalists: 178,000,000
Communists: 60,000,000
Anything to do with slavery is obviously capitalism, so...
Capitalists: 196,500,000
Communists: 60,000,000
I had to look this one up. But I'm satisfied that he wasn't a communist.
Capitalists: 213,500,000
Communists: 60,000,000
Slavery again. More for the capitalist body count.
Capitalists: 229,500,000
Communists: 60,000,000
This was purely a capitalist, monarchist, and imperialist war which made absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Capitalists: 244,500,000
Communists: 60,000,000
All in the name of capitalism and freedom - our "Manifest Destiny."
Capitalists: 259,500,000
Communists: 60,000,000
That was another one I had to look up. China again. But not Mao.
Capitalists: 272,500,000
Communists: 60,000,000
And another...
Capitalists: 282,500,000
Communists: 60,000,000
I guess being a "Free State" isn't all that it's cracked up to be.
Capitalists: 292,500,000
Communists: 60,000,000
This one may be a toss up, since the capitalists were fighting the communists. I'll split the difference.
Capitalists: 297,000,000
Communists: 64,500,000
Capitalists all the way...
Capitalists: 304,500,000
Communists: 64,500,000
Capitalists: 312,000,000
Communists: 64,500,000
I actually thought the Romans would have had a higher count. There's more detail about that within the site. But the Romans obviously weren't communists, so the running total thus far:
Capitalists: 319,000,000
Communists: 64,500,000
The site further expounds on the figures and notes that the capitalists killed more than the communists in those civil wars. But the difference wasn't that much, so we can split the difference again.
So, based on a list of the 20 worst things people have done to each other, we have a tally of:
Capitalists: 322,500,000
Communists: 68,000,000
In all honesty, I don't think this actually proves that one system is better than the other. In the final analysis, political systems don't kill people; people kill people.
TLTR, but WW2 was about capitalism?
Mongols were capitalists?
That's a very inventive defense of communist
famines, which are the largest of any countries.
Were you right, we should quickly adopt
Soviet, PRC & NK styles of agriculture.
But there are different system responses with different kinds of controls.
Communism (as typically practiced) involves centralization which creates
dysfunction, particularly in industries subject to chaotic influences, eg,
agriculture suffering from adverse weather. A distributed control system
can better adapt to changing conditions. It offers diversity of solutions,
& people can learn from each other's results, applying solutions without
bureaucratic lethargy.
It was started by capitalist countries.
Well, they weren't communists, were they? If they weren't communists, then they must have been capitalists.
It wasn't intended to be a defense. It was merely to demonstrate that governments, regardless of the economic system they have, can do really crappy things. It has nothing to do with a "system," as you keep claiming.
It wasn't the agricultural "system," per se. They were certainly more than capable of raising enough food. The problem was the transportation system.
It's an arguable point, given Hitler's control of "the means of production",
& his agreement with the USSR to divide up the area.
The Japan v USA relationship complicates things.
But fundamentally, WW2 wasn't about capitalism, but rather conquest.
So I don't buy this argument that communist economies result in less death.
They create the biggest famines in history.
Transportation of goods is integral to agriculture.
And the former's failure is also due to centralization,
& the elimination of individual initiative.
Woberts
The Perfumed Seneschal
Me too.
Why not start one?Me too.
I hereby nominate you as founder & leader.
(Sure, sure...I'm not qualified, but what the hell, eh.)
Woberts
The Perfumed Seneschal
Well, yes and no. I had a great uncle who would probably qualify as an elite, and an another who was a average working class citizen.
And as for failed? Not even close, lol.
Woberts
The Perfumed Seneschal
Alright, first we have to free the proletariat. In this case, that would probably be the us lowly posters.
Which means that the mods are the bourgeoise.
Let's overthrow the mods!