Father Heathen
Veteran Member
With the anime avatar you knew it would be a neckbeardtastic post.
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-On is to ignore that there is a problem and to be pro-gay marriages. But even if you are for gay marriages, this is still ignoring that something about this God doesn't like. Which means I'll skip to the meat of it:
What is relevant is the attempt to divide the church. God has married the church, united it, and people should not be voting to split.
-There's also the fact that this whole thing smacks of government intervention, specifically a secular system trying to impose Obama era rules on a public who would rather go to church to worship.
The debate that's going on within the church right now isn't really about gay marriage. That issue is just the spark of the moment. The real debate is about whether or not the church is going to dictate to the individuals within it what is right before God, or whether the individuals within the church are going to determine for themselves what is right before God. It's not a struggle about gay rights, it's a struggle about individual autonomy vs. church authority. And there is no 'right' or 'wrong' side of this particular debate. There are just people who come to different conclusions about church authority, vs. individual autonomy. And that's why the schism is occurring. And it's why the schism was inevitable, and why it probably should occur. It's a fundamental difference of opinion regarding one's relationship to their church, of such significance that it calls for two very different expressions of church organization.Two consenting adults should be able to love each other.
Why do you need a marriage contract for that? Why do you need to tear apart churches for that? Just do it!
I'm a transfeminine genderfluid person who was born male. If I want to date women, men, transgender women, preop trans women, the idea of making a church take responsibility for my decision is stupid. It's not like most of these would involve wedlock, so yes, you are in denial.
"If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves." I know for a fact that the person I'm interested in is bisexual, has left the church, and my being legally female would probably disqualify me under the gay marriage restrictions . I also know that true to my belief as to the reason for marriage being family, she doesn't want kids, and I'm not sure I do either. So rather than tell myself the church is wrong for not letting me get married, maybe I'm wrong and I shouldn't in the first place. Especially since she has a bf, and I'm just extra.
The person who thinks any of that above mess is something marriage can resolve is kidding themselves. In denial.
The poll options being highly rigged remain. But you can multiple choice to make all the results messed up if you want.
So what exactly is the problem?
But even if you are for gay marriages, this is still ignoring that something about this God doesn't like.
the actual meaning of marriage (which is not for couples but for families
Two consenting adults should be able to love each other. Why do you need a marriage contract for that?
Why do you need to tear apart churches for that?
I'm a transfeminine genderfluid person who was born male. If I want to date women, men, transgender women, preop trans women, the idea of making a church take responsibility for my decision is stupid.
If it were only this obsession they had in Abrahamic faiths ... they have a trecillion obsessions about what others should (not) do I noticed.gay or not. It's an obsession that seems very présent in abrahamic faiths, but that's it.
It is just because they do not follow Jesus simple 3 word teaching "do not judge"It seems that religious belief is often the main reason for such thinking. Hence one reason why we would have been so much better without them.
Or another rather clear Message, "Love God, Love you neighbor, the rest is details."It is just because they do not follow Jesus simple 3 word teaching "do not judge"
So what exactly is the problem?
Well, there's theories:
-On is to ignore that there is a problem and to be pro-gay marriages. But even if you are for gay marriages, this is still ignoring that something about this God doesn't like.
Which means I'll skip to the meat of it:
- Awhile back, the Episcopal church voted to split over gay marriage. They became Anglican and Episcopalian. Then Methodists voted against, but wound up being forced to split anyway. Let's read Genesis, with of course those offensive words like 'man' and 'woman' changed to person.
"For this reason a person shall leave their father and mother and be united to their wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one. Therefore, what God has joined together let not man separate. " It's not relevant who is the husband and who is the wife (but from previous threads, you'll note that I do not believe in two parties working or two parties raising children, one cannot work in terms of the child, the other fails economically). What is relevant is the attempt to divide the church. God has married the church, united it, and people should not be voting to split.
-There's also the fact that this whole thing smacks of government intervention, specifically a secular system trying to impose Obama era rules on a public who would rather go to church to worship.
-Oh yeah and there's also the classic arguments that it's calling something sinful morally good, or a gateway drug to other odd behavior, or that it ignores the actual meaning of marriage (which is not for couples but for families, though I could contend this last one would be fine if gays could adopt more easily). But Ibthink these are secondary to the two real issues.
If it were only this obsession they had in Abrahamic faiths ... they have a trecillion obsessions about what others should (not) do I noticed.
The problem is the intersection of traditional mores with emerging science and social advancement. There is no intrinsic problem with gay marriage. It is not expressly prohibited either by biblical tenet or legal precedent. Gay marriage is legal, and it is sanctioned by at least some quarters of the Church.So what exactly is the problem?
Well, there's theories:
-On is to ignore that there is a problem and to be pro-gay marriages. But even if you are for gay marriages, this is still ignoring that something about this God doesn't like. Which means I'll skip to the meat of it:
- Awhile back, the Episcopal church voted to split over gay marriage. They became Anglican and Episcopalian. Then Methodists voted against, but wound up being forced to split anyway. Let's read Genesis, with of course those offensive words like 'man' and 'woman' changed to person.
"For this reason a person shall leave their father and mother and be united to their wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one. Therefore, what God has joined together let not man separate. " It's not relevant who is the husband and who is the wife (but from previous threads, you'll note that I do not believe in two parties working or two parties raising children, one cannot work in terms of the child, the other fails economically). What is relevant is the attempt to divide the church. God has married the church, united it, and people should not be voting to split.
-There's also the fact that this whole thing smacks of government intervention, specifically a secular system trying to impose Obama era rules on a public who would rather go to church to worship.
-Oh yeah and there's also the classic arguments that it's calling something sinful morally good, or a gateway drug to other odd behavior, or that it ignores the actual meaning of marriage (which is not for couples but for families, though I could contend this last one would be fine if gays could adopt more easily). But Ibthink these are secondary to the two real issues.
I am from an older generation. When I see a gay couple kiss on TV part of my brain goes "Uggh" and then the rational part of my brain goes "So what?" If seeing that bothers a person so much it might time to question their own sexuality.Should have added:
-There's absolutely no problem. Two consenting adults should be allowed to love.
-It's icchy and my sensitive eyes can't handle it!
-I can't look beyond a literal interpretation of an ancient religious text in order to keep up with the times.
I agree with your post, and I'll take it a bit further.But no one — religious, traditionalist, moralist — no one — has the right to sit in judgment of the sexual nature of others. No one has the right to determine what’s sexually “right” for someone else. That’s where the evil lies, is in that entitlement. It’s morally and ethically wrong.
And ... it's bad, it's really really bad. Did I tell you it's bad?Should have added:
-There's absolutely no problem. Two consenting adults should be allowed to love.
-It's icchy and my sensitive eyes can't handle it!
-I can't look beyond a literal interpretation of an ancient religious text in order to keep up with the times.
I think the real issue is that God makes us as we are, with regard to our innate sexuality, and that some people refuse to recognize that.I agree with your post, and I'll take it a bit further.
Suppose God decides that there is plenty of humanity. So much that population growth is a far bigger problem than lack of procreation. So, He starts making more gay people. People who can have good lives, without adding to the population problem.
Who is more Christian? The people who hear God, and recognize the worth of His children overall? Or the ones who stick to the ancient human authorities who say things that they prefer to hear?
Tom
The root of all the "problems" with gay marriage is all the straight people who interfere with gay marriage.So what exactly is the problem?
They refuse to listen to God or rational arguments because it interferes with the self righteous egotism that religious teachings commonly instill in adherents.I think the real issue is that God makes us as we are, with regard to our innate sexuality, and that some people refuse to recognize that.
Yup.They refuse to listen to God or rational arguments because it interferes with the self righteous egotism that religious teachings commonly instill in adherents.
That's the real issue.
Religion teaches people to be self righteous and prideful, by telling them how smart and good they are by identifying the true interpretation of whatever Scripture they've been taught is From God.
Tom
What you are saying isn't that there is a problem with two people in love with each other wanting to formalize that bond and declare it to the World through marriage even if they happen to share gender, but that you have a problem with it.So what exactly is the problem?
Well, there's theories:
-On is to ignore that there is a problem and to be pro-gay marriages. But even if you are for gay marriages, this is still ignoring that something about this God doesn't like. Which means I'll skip to the meat of it:
- Awhile back, the Episcopal church voted to split over gay marriage. They became Anglican and Episcopalian. Then Methodists voted against, but wound up being forced to split anyway. Let's read Genesis, with of course those offensive words like 'man' and 'woman' changed to person.
"For this reason a person shall leave their father and mother and be united to their wife, and the two will become one flesh. So they are no longer two but one. Therefore, what God has joined together let not man separate. " It's not relevant who is the husband and who is the wife (but from previous threads, you'll note that I do not believe in two parties working or two parties raising children, one cannot work in terms of the child, the other fails economically). What is relevant is the attempt to divide the church. God has married the church, united it, and people should not be voting to split.
-There's also the fact that this whole thing smacks of government intervention, specifically a secular system trying to impose Obama era rules on a public who would rather go to church to worship.
-Oh yeah and there's also the classic arguments that it's calling something sinful morally good, or a gateway drug to other odd behavior, or that it ignores the actual meaning of marriage (which is not for couples but for families, though I could contend this last one would be fine if gays could adopt more easily). But Ibthink these are secondary to the two real issues.
The rest is very important "as thyself".Or another rather clear Message, "Love God, Love you neighbor, the rest is details."
Tom