• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The 144,000

wizanda

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
Cateau said:
Is it really the limit of entry to the New Jerusalem?
Click to expand...
Btw, not sure if you noticed this; yet the measurements of the temple are also 14400:

Revelation 21:17 Its wall is one hundred forty-four cubits, by the measure of a man, that is, of an angel.

Interestingly Ezekiel measures the length 2250 yards for each wall, which if multiplied by 64 is exactly 144000...

Though clearly somewhere the sums are still off. :innocent:
 
Cateau

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
wizanda said:
Btw, not sure if you noticed this; yet the measurements of the temple are also 14400:

Revelation 21:17 Its wall is one hundred forty-four cubits, by the measure of a man, that is, of an angel.

Interestingly Ezekiel measures the length 2250 yards for each wall, which if multiplied by 64 is exactly 144000...

Though clearly somewhere the sums are still off. :innocent:
Click to expand...
That happens a lot in the Bible, like Pastor Doug Bachelor explained how the priests would wear the significant pomegranate which it's seeds approximated the number of tribes and other stuff, though yeah not ever pomegranate will have that number likewise neither will walls. There's a lot of foreshadowment, though I haven't looked too greatly into it. I mean I dunno if its to the extent that the Bible Code claims but I know its in there. Also the names mean alot too like in the geneology what the names say in sentences, its cray cray
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
"144,000" would not be written that way back 2000 years ago. The highest number was 1000 then, so any number higher than that would have to use multiples. However, there's no need to take that number literally because there's a way to break that down so one can see the likely, imo, "message" inside.

Because of the above, the most logical breakdown would be like this: twelve twelves thousands. That's awkward to us today because we don;t speak that way.

So, why "twelve"? It was a number associated with "completion", therefore a good number. How many tribes of Israel? How many apostles? etc. But notice "twelve" is repeated, so what does that say? Probably "completion upon completion"-- iow, very complete.

"Thousand" was the highest number then, and it was often used to symbolize numbers beyond our comprehension. Here in the States, if I see a large flock of birds outside, I might say to you "Look, there's a million birds out there!". Now, I really don't expect you to start counting them. To our early Jewish ancestors, "thousand" said much the same, and one may note how many times it's used in the scriptures, sometimes in combination with other numbers.

So, if we put this together, what is this saying? It's "completion upon completion with greater numbers than we can imagine". But does this make sense in the context of the scriptures? Yes, and it deals with the "numbers" of those converting to the Way.

Is this the correct interpretation of 144,000? Of course there's no way to tell for sure, but it does make sense in the above context.

BTW, this was not my idea but of some theologians that are familiar with this on both the religious and cultural scale.
 
Cateau

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
metis said:
"144,000" would not be written that way back 2000 years ago. The highest number was 1000 then, so any number higher than that would have to use multiples. However, there's no need to take that number literally because there's a way to break that down so one can see the likely, imo, "message" inside.

Because of the above, the most logical breakdown would be like this: twelve twelves thousands. That's awkward to us today because we don;t speak that way.

So, why "twelve"? It was a number associated with "completion", therefore a good number. How many tribes of Israel? How many apostles? etc. But notice "twelve" is repeated, so what does that say? Probably "completion upon completion"-- iow, very complete.

"Thousand" was the highest number then, and it was often used to symbolize numbers beyond our comprehension. Here in the States, if I see a large flock of birds outside, I might say to you "Look, there's a million birds out there!". Now, I really don't expect you to start counting them. To our early Jewish ancestors, "thousand" said much the same, and one may note how many times it's used in the scriptures, sometimes in combination with other numbers.

So, if we put this together, what is this saying? It's "completion upon completion with greater numbers than we can imagine". But does this make sense in the context of the scriptures? Yes, and it deals with the "numbers" of those converting to the Way.

Is this the correct interpretation of 144,000? Of course there's no way to tell for sure, but it does make sense in the above context.

BTW, this was not my idea but of some theologians that are familiar with this on both the religious and cultural scale.
Click to expand...
Kinda like how they say as innumerable as the grains of sand? The number was used to express this? Interesting, glad its not a competition lol like omg there's no more tickets to heaven noooo. My childhood church actually gave those out, damn lost mine. But I wonder why was it counted as a sin to number all the peoples? Like the prophet (forgot which) lied about it because David sent out to count them and its something Satan can't know apperantly
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Cateau said:
I know, however having many kids and many wives...concubines, maidservents, sister-wives, whatever you wanna call them always leads to troublesome things. Like that case, they then sent her off alone to die in the desert.....now there's that issuing war of Islam and Judaism. Then David, his kid murders his half brother to become king, Solomon. And has his son killed Absalom, because he was in a rage doing immoral things to his father because he would have no justice for his sister's rape from his half brother. Now I'm wondering was it an Eve in the garden or a Steve lol....Steve would a never done him dirty like that.
Click to expand...

I believe God believed Islam should work. Command a person to do something and God should be obeyed. Unfortunately it didn't work then and doesn't work now. Now imbue someone like King Saul with the Holy Spirit and even a wicked person like him could prophesy, and it now works even better with the Paraclete.
 
Cateau

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
Muffled said:
I believe God believed Islam should work. Command a person to do something and God should be obeyed. Unfortunately it didn't work then and doesn't work now. Now imbue someone like King Saul with the Holy Spirit and even a wicked person like him could prophesy, and it now works even better with the Paraclete.
Click to expand...
Do all avenues rlly lead to the same route? I don't know that Islam was meant to work just b/c god spared Hagar and her son from death. I mean every religion has its burn them all moments, but geesh Islam turn it down a notch. Its a spiritual battle right? Turn the cheek no? The pen is mightier than the sword. The HS is like ones conscious isn't it? The "angel" on ones shoulder. Saul listened to the devil on his shoulder more. As a saying goes however, god once used an *** (Numbers22) to help do his will....and he's been using them ever since.
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Cateau said:
Do all avenues rlly lead to the same route? I don't know that Islam was meant to work just b/c god spared Hagar and her son from death. I mean every religion has its burn them all moments, but geesh Islam turn it down a notch. Its a spiritual battle right? Turn the cheek no? The pen is mightier than the sword. The HS is like ones conscious isn't it? The "angel" on ones shoulder. Saul listened to the devil on his shoulder more. As a saying goes however, god once used an *** (Numbers22) to help do his will....and he's been using them ever since.
Click to expand...

I believe I am good at missing my road signs. My wife usually acts as my copilot but on my last trip my daughter took over the role. The Jews and the Muslims have the information but don't know how to read the signs so they miss their exit.

I believe it is not and you probably mean conscience which it is not also. The HS is God who is a spirit.
 
psychoslice

psychoslice

Veteran Member
Its just a number with no real meaning, just like 666, and many other numbers in the bible, don't get caught up with the number, but see where the number points to.
 
Cateau

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
psychoslice said:
Its just a number with no real meaning, just like 666, and many other numbers in the bible, don't get caught up with the number, but see where the number points to.
Click to expand...
Oooohkaaaay whatever that means grandmother willow ill keep that in mind....lol it points to john smith.
 
Cateau

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
Muffled said:
I believe I am good at missing my road signs. My wife usually acts as my copilot but on my last trip my daughter took over the role. The Jews and the Muslims have the information but don't know how to read their signs. I believe it is not and you probably mean conscience which it is not also. The HS is God who is a spirit.
Click to expand...

I think they have the answers, the real question is did they not take the exit on purpose, dun dun duuuuun. I wish I had a chauffeur, a spiritual one and physical one...albeit the conscience works as a co-pilot, I have problems with metaphorical and physical road signs myself. I mean you can't be the pilot And co-pilot, that I say its the HS might be an overstatment but god is omnipresent and it'd make sense for His presense in our everyday life as Jiminy Cricket to Pinnochio. It could be a gaurdian archetype angel but it is still representitive of god.
 
Cateau

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
psychoslice said:
Ha, it points to no one, especially him lol.
Click to expand...
I want to sleep feeling safe asi we whirl through freezing darkness un space get off my back And oh ill sooooooooo find where it points meanwhile go buy another sweater...ill chip in.
 
Cateau

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
psychoslice said:
What are you on, can I have some lol.
Click to expand...

Sure its called reading rainbow, take a look its in a book something something I'm sure u know the song lol judging by ur haircut. I blame my data plan....I just look And look things ups lol
 
Muffled

Muffled

Jesus in me
Cateau said:
I think they have the answers, the real question is did they not take the exit on purpose, dun dun duuuuun. I wish I had a chauffeur, a spiritual one and physical one...albeit the conscience works as a co-pilot, I have problems with metaphorical and physical road signs myself. I mean you can't be the pilot And co-pilot, that I say its the HS might be an overstatment but god is omnipresent and it'd make sense for His presense in our everyday life as Jiminy Cricket to Pinnochio. It could be a gaurdian archetype angel but it is still representitive of god.
Click to expand...
I believe the HS is more like the Exorcist but not demon possession; God possession. I believe conscience is your own spirit which may be bad or good having learned many things over many lifetimes.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top