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The 144,000

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
Is it really the limit of entry to the New Jerusalem? Or could it be that it is a number to the saved fallen malahkiem? I wonder because the Bible states angles will be judged, what's the point if setting up a jury if the plaintiff can't be anything other than guilty? (2 corinthians 6:8) Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, matters of this life?

Some people point to Zechariah 5:9 as an example of female angels. That verse says, “Then I looked up—and there before me were two women, with the wind in their wings! They had wings like those of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between heaven and earth.” The problem is that the “women” in this prophetic vision are not called angels. They are called nashiym (“women”), as is the woman in the basket representing wickedness in verses 7 and 8. By contrast, the angel that Zechariah was speaking to is called a malak, a completely different word meaning “angel” or “messenger.” The fact that the women have wings in Zechariah’s vision might suggest angels to our minds, but we must be careful about going beyond what the text actually says. A vision does not necessarily depict actual beings or objects—consider the huge flying scroll Zechariah sees earlier in the same chapter (Zechariah 5:1–2).

If this verse were taken literally and the women were nephilem half breed of human and angles then could it mean that number is for how many of them were saved because they did not defile themselves by intermingling with human women as says the verse, "it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb." If not....that is a very little number for a grand multitude of people as countless as the grains of sand.
 

Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
Is it really the limit of entry to the New Jerusalem? Or could it be that it is a number to the saved fallen malahkiem? I wonder because the Bible states angles will be judged, what's the point if setting up a jury if the plaintiff can't be anything other than guilty? (2 corinthians 6:8) Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, matters of this life?

Some people point to Zechariah 5:9 as an example of female angels. That verse says, “Then I looked up—and there before me were two women, with the wind in their wings! They had wings like those of a stork, and they lifted up the basket between heaven and earth.” The problem is that the “women” in this prophetic vision are not called angels. They are called nashiym (“women”), as is the woman in the basket representing wickedness in verses 7 and 8. By contrast, the angel that Zechariah was speaking to is called a malak, a completely different word meaning “angel” or “messenger.” The fact that the women have wings in Zechariah’s vision might suggest angels to our minds, but we must be careful about going beyond what the text actually says. A vision does not necessarily depict actual beings or objects—consider the huge flying scroll Zechariah sees earlier in the same chapter (Zechariah 5:1–2).

If this verse were taken literally and the women were nephilem half breed of human and angles then could it mean that number is for how many of them were saved because they did not defile themselves by intermingling with human women as says the verse, "it is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are virgins. It is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes. These have been redeemed from mankind as firstfruits for God and the Lamb." If not....that is a very little number for a grand multitude of people as countless as the grains of sand.

This concept has perplexed me for some time now.
Is it 144000 souls in all time? Or is it allegorical, that only a few people bother to live pure lives?
Is it 144000 at any one time, or is that number meant for the time in which it was written.

I don't know how to decide, so its reasonable to guess that it is not meant literally.
Still it could mean 12000 for each of the 12 tribes.

what's the point if setting up a jury if the plaintiff can't be anything other than guilty?
So that they are given opportunity to learn of their errors.
As time always advances, there will be infinite judgement days in infinite universes.
Even if 144000 is literally for our own impending judgement,
time will advance. THAT future will give way to another.
This universe will die.
Everything is an opportunity for learning.
 

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
This concept has perplexed me for some time now.
Is it 144000 souls in all time? Or is it allegorical, that only a few people bother to live pure lives?
Is it 144000 at any one time, or is that number meant for the time in which it was written.

I don't know how to decide, so its reasonable to guess that it is not meant literally.
Still it could mean 12000 for each of the 12 tribes.


So that they are given opportunity to learn of their errors.
As time always advances, there will be infinite judgement days in infinite universes.
Even if 144000 is literally for our own impending judgement,
time will advance. THAT future will give way to another.
This universe will die.
Everything is an opportunity for learning.
........yes and according to Mayan ledgend the universe began to end in 2012, by 2045 I think it will, I hope it too since everyone will be half machine. I think its more like when the Son said forgive your brother 70X7 not litteral just an example of ongoing forgiveness....But I mean in Johnas and Noah's time good people were scarse, compared to their times 144,000 would be a lot of good hearted people. I only find 1 good guy or girl in 50......and not rlly even sure! Lol. I all know is I want to be on the next Ark.
 

Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
........yes and according to Mayan ledgend the universe began to end in 2012, by 2045 I think it will, I hope it too since everyone will be half machine. I think its more like when the Son said forgive your brother 70X7 not litteral just an example of ongoing forgiveness....But I mean in Johnas and Noah's time good people were scarse, compared to their times 144,000 would be a lot of good hearted people. I only find 1 good guy or girl in 50......and not rlly even sure! Lol. I all know is I want to be on the next Ark.

Reckon the next ark is a spaceship?
Reckon the last one was as well?
 

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
Reckon the next ark is a spaceship?
Reckon the last one was as well?

Reckon we even landed on the moon on the first place? lol. No I don't want to go to space....even though we r.....I dont wanna go to the third heaven!!! The next Ark would be the New Jerusalem as its supposed to land here and the last good souls go into it to live. Then the universe can blow up lol. I'm guessing it'll have a dome ...made of diamond lol.
 

Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
Reckon we even landed on the moon on the first place? lol. No I don't want to go to space....even though we r.....I dont wanna go to the third heaven!!! The next Ark would be the New Jerusalem as its supposed to land here and the last good souls go into it to live. Then the universe can blow up lol. I'm guessing it'll have a dome ...made of diamond lol.

No ways. We definitely have not been to the moon.
But they had to fake it to get the funding for ordinary satellite technology.
So the fake lunar landings are ironically 'one small step' to actually doing it for real.

I also read the Bible like its actually a history of space travel.
Ezekiel's flying machine is so obviously high-tech.
 

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
No ways. We definitely have not been to the moon.
But they had to fake it to get the funding for ordinary satellite technology.
So the fake lunar landings are ironically 'one small step' to actually doing it for real.

I also read the Bible like its actually a history of space travel.
Ezekiel's flying machine is so obviously high-tech.

"No ways," you have not read the Bible, no one does lol JP, you deff. have watched the history channels religion episodes. Or was it discovery lol. The flaming chariot, I wonder what it was or Jacob's ladder. Hrmmmmmm. Very interesting. I like to study that. But I should go finnish the Bible lol.
 

ukok102nak

Active Member
~;> as it is written
:read:
Revelation of John 7:4
I heard the number of those who were sealed, one hundred forty-four thousand, sealed out of every tribe of the children of Israel:

that means in the past
coz in the future
here is what the scripture says
:read:

Revelation of John 7:9
After these things I looked, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.
10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying, "Salvation be to our God, who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb!"
11 All the angels were standing around the throne, the elders, and the four living creatures; and they fell on their faces before theb throne, and worshiped God,
12 saying, "Amen! Blessing, glory, wisdom, thanksgiving, honor, power, and might, be to our God forever and ever! Amen."
13 One of the elders answered, saying to me, "These who are arrayed in white robes, who are they, and from where did they come?"
14 So I said to him, "My lord, you know."
He said to me, "These are the ones who came out of the great tribulation. They washed their robes, and made them white in the Lamb's blood.

15 Therefore they are before the throne of God, they serve him day and night in his temple. He who sits on the throne will spread his tabernacle over them.
16 They will hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither will the sun beat on them, nor any heat;
17 for the Lamb who is in the midst of the throne shepherds them, and leads them to springs of waters of life. And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes."

the great tribulation
that was been told in the new covenant
so as it is written
:read:
Matthew 24:21
for then there will be great oppression, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be.
22 Unless those days had been shortened, no flesh would have been saved. But for the sake of the chosen ones, those days will be shortened.
23 "Then if any man tells you, 'Behold, here is the Messiah,' or, 'There,
' do not believe it.
24 For there will arise false messiahs, and false prophets, and they will show great signs and wonders,
so as to lead astray, if possible, even the chosen ones.
25 "Behold, I have told you beforehand.
26 If therefore they tell you,
'Behold, he is in the wilderness,
' do not go out;
'Behold, he is in the inner chambers,
' do not believe it.
27 For as the lightning flashes from the east, and is seen even to the west,
so will be the coming of the Son of Man.
28 For wherever the carcass is, there is where the vultures gather together.
29 But immediately after the oppression of those days, the sun will be darkened,
the moon will not give its light, the stars will fall from the sky, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken;
30 and then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. Then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the skyi with power and great glory.
31 He will send out his angels with a great trumpet, and they will gather together his chosen ones from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.


in this writtings
the great tribulation was been translated
as the
great oppression, such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be

now
who will do the
great oppression
coz
Unless those days had been shortened,
no flesh would have been saved.
meaning
every living flesh that are in existence within this reality
But for the sake of the chosen ones,
those days will be shortened.
and
who shall be the one (people who are united to do good things in this life)
to be oppress
( a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of all tribes, peoples, and languages, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes, with palm branches in their hands.)
as in
to be keep (someone) in subservience and hardship, especially by the unjust exercise of authority.

just one question
did anyone here knows somethin about
"THE EVIL ONE" . . . ... .. . .
for some people says
the great tribulation
is the combination of every
material things and spiritual things
from the past
until that time comes
for everyone to behold the things
that there is
from the heights of human evolution
until it riches its glorious
scientific wisdom and mystical knowlegde
but only those
who used those knowlegde and wisdom for the good of mankind like
battling the forces of "THE EVIL ONE"

therefore in order to

fight or struggle tenaciously to achieve or resist somethin
then
everybody needs the help of
science and magic
coz some things cannot be obtain
without the thing they called
luck and miracle
thats why humans really need
all the help
they can get
to defeat somethin
such as the forces of "THE EVIL ONE"
when that time comes
where
such as has not been from the beginning of the world until now, no, nor ever will be

by the way
about the so called
combination of science and magic
we only just heard this things
from some people (they were really strange)
so theres no guarantee
if it is all true
nor whether it shall come to pass
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always
 
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Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
"No ways," you have not read the Bible, no one does lol JP, you deff. have watched the history channels religion episodes. Or was it discovery lol. The flaming chariot, I wonder what it was or Jacob's ladder. Hrmmmmmm. Very interesting. I like to study that. But I should go finnish the Bible lol.

From 2005 to 2010 I read the Bible cover-to-cover once per year.
 

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
From 2005 to 2010 I read the Bible cover-to-cover once per year.
Jeezaloo! That a lot to go through, and I'm on like book 12 of 66. I get distracted by others like Enoch and Jubilees but I think I can Finnish this year, can you tell me how it ends???? Lolz.
 

Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
Jeezaloo! That a lot to go through, and I'm on like book 12 of 66. I get distracted by others like Enoch and Jubilees but I think I can Finnish this year, can you tell me how it ends???? Lolz.

Just read a little bit every day,
and try and imagine all miracles are high-tech,
and Moses is a Jedi.
 

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
Just read a little bit every day,
and try and imagine all miracles are high-tech,
and Moses is a Jedi.
Well I'll try, though it's hard to even open up. I got the Douay Rheims Bible b/c it has interesting commentary, no other will do, it's online but no bookmark feature. Bad thing is, it is HUGE. I can't just lay in bed or on a chair like any other book, I need a desk! Its uncomfortable otherwise lol. But I guess in the very early hours of the day I can go use a desk before anyone else does.....oh to have to wake up soon soon, coffee at 2am it is. I cannot however imagine your fantasy, it is terrible... absolutely terrible. My English Proffessor was a friend of the director to the movie Star Wars or the author of the idea (I hear it's Gnostic) but that didnt even peak an interest in me, however when my anatomy teacher mentioned he knew the actual doctor William Robins starred as in Awakenings I was impressed lol.
 

ronandcarol

Member
Premium Member
The 144,000
I will put my Faith in the words in 1John, 1:9, if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.
If I am free from my sins by the blood of Jesus, than I will be righteous enough to be there also. :)

ronandcarol
 

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
The 144,000
I will put my Faith in the words in 1John, 1:9, if we confess our sins to him, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all wickedness.
If I am free from my sins by the blood of Jesus, than I will be righteous enough to be there also. :)

ronandcarol
What about keeping the ten commandments?
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Is it really the limit of entry to the New Jerusalem? Or could it be that it is a number to the saved fallen malahkiem? I wonder because the Bible states angles will be judged, what's the point if setting up a jury if the plaintiff can't be anything other than guilty? (2 corinthians 6:8) Do you not know that we shall judge angels? How much more, matters of this life?

There is a simple explanation if you go back to the beginning and start from there.

Where did God place humankind after he created them? It wasn't heaven.

Where did God propose that humans would live forever? It wasn't heaven.

Where did God tell Adam that he would go if he disobeyed the only negative command there was? It wasn't heaven and it wasn't hell either.

Satan got in early and challenged God's rightful sovereignty over his human creation, before they had any children, and brought something into human experience that was never supposed to happen..."a knowledge of good and evil" which led to death.
If sin and its resulting death had never taken place where would humans be now? Not heaven.

Why do we assume that heaven is the only destination for the faithful, when God's first purpose was to have us live here on earth forever? There was no natural cause of death.

In the Revelation there are two groups....one numbered (144,000) and one the "no man could number".
Both are pictured as worshippers of God, one group is in heaven before the throne of God and the Lamb, the other group are said to be survivors of the "great tribulation" which Jesus said takes place on earth.

The 144,000 are said to be "joint-heirs with Christ" in his kingdom (Romans 8:16-17).....these will be 'kings and priests' who are resurrected "first" (Revelation 20:6) Jesus said he was going to prepare a place in heaven for these ones and then return later to take them "home". These ones make up the "Bride of Christ", or "the New Jerusalem" who will rule with him for 1,000 years. They are seen to come down out of heaven to extend their rulership to "mankind". This leads to the elimination of suffering, pain and death, because all the things that cause them are no longer in existence. They have "passed away". (Revelation 21:1-5)

If God's first purpose was to have the earth inhabited by faithful and obedient humans, and satan messed up that first plan, why would God abandon it as though he was defeated? (Isaiah 55:11) Doesn't it make more sense that he would use the rebellion to teach us about the value of obedience, and then select from among humankind those who would form a governing arrangement that would bring all obedient humans back into a peaceful relationship with him? This is the Kingdom of God with Jesus at the helm, supported by 144,000 faithful ones who began to be chosen in the first century, with the apostles making up the foundations of that kingdom. These, Jesus said, are "firstfruits" to God and to the Lamb. (Revelation 14:1-4)
But they are not the only ones to be saved....as Revelation 7:9, 10, 13, 14 tells us. A great infinite multitude will also come through the "great tribulation" in much the same way as Noah and his family came through the end of that world of wicked humanity. Jesus even used it as an example of what was to come. (Matthew 24:37-39) Compared to earth's population, these will still be "few" relatively speaking. (Matthew 7:13-14)

There are 144,000 places that make up the kingdom, and these rulers who reign with Christ in heaven will rule earthly subjects....all will be lovers of God and obedient to his commands.

As for the judging of angels, God's children both in heaven and on earth have been on trial all these years since satan's rebellion. Angels, like humans are not immortal but can suffer destruction of their lives eternally. Those who side with satan will suffer the same fate as he does in the end. (Matthew 25:41)

All are free willed and all can choose their own course and their own destiny. The ones taken to heaven are given immortal spirit bodies and endowed with great power.....the power to judge both men and angels.

That is how I see things.
 

ukok102nak

Active Member
~;> and
this is how christjesus see things.
as it is written
:read:
John 14:1
"Do not let your heart be troubled. Believe in God. Believe also in me.
2 In my Father's house are many dwelling places. If it weren't so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and will receive you to myself; that where I am, you may be there also.
4 Where I go, you know the way."

did anyone mentioned before
that thisplane of existence
meaning including this world and every planet
coz this universe is not his Father's house

thats why
the scripture says this things
so as it is written
:read:
John 8:21
Jesus spoke to the Pharisees again. He said, "I'm going away, and you'll look for me. But you will die because of your sin. You can't go where I'm going."
22 Then the Jews asked, "Is he going to kill himself? Is that what he means when he says, 'You can't go where I'm going'?"
23 Jesus said to them, "You're from below. I'm from above. You're from this world. I'm not from this world.
24 For this reason I told you that you'll die because of your sins. If you don't believe that I am the one, you'll die because of your sins."
25 The Jews asked him, "Who did you say you are?" Jesus told them, "I am who I said I was from the beginning.
26 I have a lot I could say about you and a lot I could condemn you for. But the one who sent me is true. So I tell the world exactly what he has told me."
27 (The Jews didn't know that he was talking to them about the Father.)
28 So Jesus told them, "When you have lifted up the Son of Man, then you'll know that I am the one and that I can't do anything on my own. Instead, I speak as the Father taught me.
29 Besides, the one who sent me is with me. He hasn't left me by myself. I always do what pleases him."


:ty:




godbless
unto all always
 

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
If no flesh can enter the kingdom but our bodies will be renewed, what will we be over there? Since the Son didn't die in Spirit to save Spirits but in flesh for man
 

ukok102nak

Active Member
If no flesh can enter the kingdom but our bodies will be renewed, what will we be over there? Since the Son didn't die in Spirit to save Spirits but in flesh for man
~;> no
the only begotten son of god never died
in human form
just to save only the very flesh in this reality
as it is written
:read:
Colossians 2:14
wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;
15 having stripped the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

as they say
what came first accordin to the scriptures
spirit or flesh
or shall we say did The Word became flesh, or
the flesh became word



What evil one? Isn't it systematic
:praying: so as it is written
:read:
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,

against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that all of you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

is there any evil day that god created
. ... in the beginning
just askin if we may say so ... .


now
systematic should knew the answers from this question:
how did the humanity learned that
they will exist in this reality
or
for how long the human species shall remain
in this plane of existence without losing their salvation
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always
 

Cateau

Giovanni Pico & Della Barba Devotee
~;> no
the only begotten son of god never died
in human form
just to save only the very flesh in this reality
as it is written
:read:
Colossians 2:14
wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;
15 having stripped the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

as they say
what came first accordin to the scriptures
spirit or flesh
or shall we say did The Word became flesh, or
the flesh became word




:praying: so as it is written
:read:
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers,

against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places.
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that all of you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

is there any evil day that god created
. ... in the beginning
just askin if we may say so ... .


now
systematic should knew the answers from this question:
how did the humanity learned that
they will exist in this reality
or
for how long the human species shall remain
in this plane of existence without losing their salvation
if we may say so


:ty:




godbless
unto all always
Uhhmmmmm can u rephrase that? ;) ur enigmatic, next time I'll ask a rhetorical question lolz as ur answers bring forth more questions instead.
 
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