Temptation of Jesus?

[Terry Sampson]

But guess we are all raised differently.

Guess so. Fortunately for you, eh?
Before I was 12, many of my childhood friends could leave their homes in the morning and go home after dark and never be asked where they had been by an adult. And that was in Oklahoma in the 1950s. And I laugh now because I remember wishing that I could be so lucky. Your notion that parents of a 12 year old kid ought to fret over the whereabouts of the kid if they don't know where that kid is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, is actually a very modern and very Western idea. Two thousand years ago, in Israel of that day, I suspect the life of children was just a little bit different. Today, leaving kids in hot cars is still a hot topic (cf. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=parents+forget+kids), and from time to time I still read an article in the news about some kid getting left behind in store or getting lost in a forest. My own brother (one of six kids) was left behind at a gas station and it was 30 minutes before anybody noticed.

 

[pearl]

Each refusal of Jesus is expressed in language taken from the Book of Deut.(8:3, 6:13, 16)

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

What is the explanation for the temptation of Jesus. If Jesus is God (Trinity) or even if not, but said to inherit the kingdom of God, depending on how one understand it.

What is the purpose of these verses then? Because Satan clearly know that Jesus is the Son of God, but if Jesus is as some claim, part of the holy trinity. Then Satan must be immensely stupid trying to tempt God with basically nothing, as God already have everything or can create it, if he want something.
Wouldn't Satan already know this or know that there is nothing he would be able to tempt God with? But also that trying to tempt Jesus as the Son of God having "access" to God and whatever he can do, that this is clearly a lost cause from the beginning.

So does this temptation story even make sense in the first place?

Matthew 4:1-11
1 After this, Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
2 After fasting for 40 days and 40 nights, he finally became hungry.
3 Then the tempter came. "Since you are the Son of God," he said, "tell these stones to become loaves of bread."
4 But he answered, "It is written, 'One must not live on bread alone, but on every word coming out of the mouth of God.'"
5 Then the devil took him to the Holy City and had him stand on the highest point of the Temple.
6 He told Jesus, "Since you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, because it is written, 'God will put his angels in charge of you,' and 'With their hands they will hold you up, so that you will never hit your foot against a rock.'"
7 Jesus responded to him, "It is also written, 'You must not tempt the Lord your God.'"
8 Once more the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, along with their splendor.
9 He told Jesus, "I will give you all these things if you will bow down and worship me!"
10 Then Jesus told him, "Go away, Satan! Because it is written, 'You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.'"
11 So the devil left him, and angels came and began ministering to him.

That was the purpose of Jesus coming to earth.
He came to conquer ‘the devil’.
It lasted most of His life.
He was the only one capable of doing it.
We are not capable. Hence, the sorry state of the world at that time.
The devil actually believes that he is god, so, of course, he thinks he can beat God.

 

[Nimos]

Guess so. Fortunately for you, eh?
Before I was 12, many of my childhood friends could leave their homes in the morning and go home after dark and never be asked where they had been by an adult. And that was in Oklahoma in the 1950s. And I laugh now because I remember wishing that I could be so lucky. Your notion that parents of a 12 year old kid ought to fret over the whereabouts of the kid if they don't know where that kid is 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, is actually a very modern and very Western idea. Two thousand years ago, in Israel of that day, I suspect the life of children was just a little bit different. Today, leaving kids in hot cars is still a hot topic (cf. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=parents+forget+kids), and from time to time I still read an article in the news about some kid getting left behind in store or getting lost in a forest. My own brother (one of six kids) was left behind at a gas station and it was 30 minutes before anybody noticed.

Im not saying that you are wrong, Im obviously judging it based on my own view. Im not especially against the idea that they would not know, since they added it to the bible in the first place.

 

[Nimos]

That was the purpose of Jesus coming to earth.
He came to conquer ‘the devil’.
It lasted most of His life.
He was the only one capable of doing it.
We are not capable. Hence, the sorry state of the world at that time.
The devil actually believes that he is god, so, of course, he thinks he can beat God.

Assume you don't believe in the holy trinity?

Also where did you get the idea that Satan believe that he is God? Is that mentioned anywhere or do you just read that between the lines, just wondering as I don't recall that being said anywhere?

 

[Terry Sampson]

Deut.(8:3, 6:13, 16)

Thanks. I had temporarily forgotten those passages.

 

[Terry Sampson]

@Amanaki

• Deuteronomy 8:3 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
  3 He humbled you and let you be hungry, and fed you with manna which you did not know, nor did your fathers know, that He might make you understand that man does not live by bread alone, but man lives by everything that proceeds out of the mouth of the Lord.
• Deuteronomy 6:13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
  13 You shall fear only the Lord your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name.
• Deuteronomy 6:16 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
  16 You shall not put the Lord your God to the test, as you tested Him at Massah.

 

[74x12]

What is the explanation for the temptation of Jesus. If Jesus is God (Trinity) or even if not, but said to inherit the kingdom of God, depending on how one understand it.

What is the purpose of these verses then? Because Satan clearly know that Jesus is the Son of God, but if Jesus is as some claim, part of the holy trinity. Then Satan must be immensely stupid trying to tempt God with basically nothing, as God already have everything or can create it, if he want something.
Wouldn't Satan already know this or know that there is nothing he would be able to tempt God with? But also that trying to tempt Jesus as the Son of God having "access" to God and whatever he can do, that this is clearly a lost cause from the beginning.

So does this temptation story even make sense in the first place?

Matthew 4:1-11
1 After this, Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
2 After fasting for 40 days and 40 nights, he finally became hungry.
3 Then the tempter came. "Since you are the Son of God," he said, "tell these stones to become loaves of bread."
4 But he answered, "It is written, 'One must not live on bread alone, but on every word coming out of the mouth of God.'"
5 Then the devil took him to the Holy City and had him stand on the highest point of the Temple.
6 He told Jesus, "Since you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, because it is written, 'God will put his angels in charge of you,' and 'With their hands they will hold you up, so that you will never hit your foot against a rock.'"
7 Jesus responded to him, "It is also written, 'You must not tempt the Lord your God.'"
8 Once more the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, along with their splendor.
9 He told Jesus, "I will give you all these things if you will bow down and worship me!"
10 Then Jesus told him, "Go away, Satan! Because it is written, 'You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.'"
11 So the devil left him, and angels came and began ministering to him.

To me it makes perfect sense because Satan is very proud. That's why he thought he had a chance to sway Jesus. His big flaw and vice has always been pride. Actually this was his big opportunity to prove that God is wrong and he(satan) is right. Because if he could get God to sin; then how can God blame him for sinning? So you see, he had to try ... You could say he's delusional or even insane. But he's not stupid. His IQ would be off the charts by human standards ... he knows what he's doing.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

Assume you don't believe in the holy trinity?

Also where did you get the idea that Satan believe that he is God? Is that mentioned anywhere or do you just read that between the lines, just wondering as I don't recall that being said anywhere?

I assume you do believe in the trinity, since you frequently mention it.
But since I gave no indication of my belief or not, I cannot see how my reply gives you the ability to ‘assume’ either way.
Plus I am trying to speak in your language, which requires a bit of effort on my part to make my statements as understandable as possible. Looking back, this need for ‘translation’ has caused me to use a wrong word in my reply.
Sorry about that. Also, another slip: satan WANTS to be god. More proper depiction. Thanks for keeping me on my toes.

 

[Nimos]

So you see, he had to try ... You could say he's delusional or even insane. But he's not stupid. His IQ would be off the charts by human standards ... he knows what he's doing.

I guess this could be a whole new topic

But I always thought that it was rather strange why Satan would even put God to the test, like Job, Jesus etc. Because if he is so intelligent as you make him. Then he would also know whether or not God is omniscient. Now would that mean that God is not omniscient?

Because if we assume, as a lot of people does, that omniscient is part of God's nature and that he is capable of seeing the future. Then any person even with our IQ would know not challenge God in anything. The moment he would accept the challenge, one would know that they had lost, so for most people even trying to, would make little sense. So I don't really see how you fit this with Satan being a lot smarter?

I wouldn't even start challenging an astrophysicist about quantum physics, even though he might not know everything about it, as he would wipe the floor with me. Yet Satan decide to challenge somewhat that knows everything, it just seems a bit unlikely.

 

[Nimos]

I assume you do believe in the trinity, since you frequently mention it.
But since I gave no indication of my belief or not, I cannot see how my reply gives you the ability to ‘assume’ either way.
Plus I am trying to speak in your language, which requires a bit of effort on my part to make my statements as understandable as possible. Looking back, this need for ‘translation’ has caused me to use a wrong word in my reply.
Sorry about that. Also, another slip: satan WANTS to be god. More proper depiction. Thanks for keeping me on my toes.

No, Im an ateist so don't believe in any of it. The reason I mention the trinity, is because if Jesus is seen as God, obviously Satan is really challenging him. But if Jesus is merely the Son of God, at least the temptation to me, seems to make a bit more sense.

Even though I still don't think it changes the fact, that Satan have to "compete" with the power of God. But again, he might try to see if Jesus have a weak spot or something. Anyway that is why I mention the trinity as I think it makes a difference.

In regards to Satan wanting to be God, I personally never seen it like that, but rather him wanting to destroy what God have made, but more than anything, I think Satan seems to be more of a "figure/Character" used to get some moral teachings across. And in general I think he plays a rather weird role in the bible, he is hardly mentioned at all, compared to how much attention he gets. But I guess you could argue that he want to be like God.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

1. Hero journey trope gotta trope.
2. Yahweh was already revealed to be easily baited back in Job.
3. Jesus rejects temptation at that point but succumbed later. He made magic food/drink. He defied gravity to walk on water. He considered himself a king of sorts.

 

[BSM1]

What truth do you think became his teaching?

Take note: the story says "the temptation did not work."

You seem to equate a person's self-identity as a child of God and self-realization of one's divinity? Interesting.
Maybe we should call a traditional Jew into this thread and ask them if they think they are a son or daughter of God and, if so, how old they were when they realized that they are divine.

I'm not sure if you and I are talking about the same thing.

 

[Terry Sampson]

Jesus rejects temptation at that point but succumbed later. He made magic food/drink. He defied gravity to walk on water. He considered himself a king of sorts.

Uhhh, .... oh wait,..."'Post' Christian, likely Deist". Never mind.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Indeed. I figured Jesus was a starting point but I want more.

 

[Terry Sampson]

I'm not sure if you and I are talking about the same thing.

We must not be.

 

[InChrist]

What is the explanation for the temptation of Jesus. If Jesus is God (Trinity) or even if not, but said to inherit the kingdom of God, depending on how one understand it.

What is the purpose of these verses then? Because Satan clearly know that Jesus is the Son of God, but if Jesus is as some claim, part of the holy trinity. Then Satan must be immensely stupid trying to tempt God with basically nothing, as God already have everything or can create it, if he want something.
Wouldn't Satan already know this or know that there is nothing he would be able to tempt God with? But also that trying to tempt Jesus as the Son of God having "access" to God and whatever he can do, that this is clearly a lost cause from the beginning.

So does this temptation story even make sense in the first place?

Matthew 4:1-11
1 After this, Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
2 After fasting for 40 days and 40 nights, he finally became hungry.
3 Then the tempter came. "Since you are the Son of God," he said, "tell these stones to become loaves of bread."
4 But he answered, "It is written, 'One must not live on bread alone, but on every word coming out of the mouth of God.'"
5 Then the devil took him to the Holy City and had him stand on the highest point of the Temple.
6 He told Jesus, "Since you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, because it is written, 'God will put his angels in charge of you,' and 'With their hands they will hold you up, so that you will never hit your foot against a rock.'"
7 Jesus responded to him, "It is also written, 'You must not tempt the Lord your God.'"
8 Once more the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, along with their splendor.
9 He told Jesus, "I will give you all these things if you will bow down and worship me!"
10 Then Jesus told him, "Go away, Satan! Because it is written, 'You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.'"
11 So the devil left him, and angels came and began ministering to him.

Makes perfect sense to me because as well as being the Son of God, second Person of the Trinity, He was human. The purpose of God becoming human and facing temptations in His humanity was on our behalf. Jesus overcame Satan’ s lies and temptations whereas humans fail. Jesus was the victory for us, along with paying for all the sins of the world on the cross. His victory and payment is applied to the lives of all who believe and trust Him as their Savior.

 

[exchemist]

What is the explanation for the temptation of Jesus. If Jesus is God (Trinity) or even if not, but said to inherit the kingdom of God, depending on how one understand it.

What is the purpose of these verses then? Because Satan clearly know that Jesus is the Son of God, but if Jesus is as some claim, part of the holy trinity. Then Satan must be immensely stupid trying to tempt God with basically nothing, as God already have everything or can create it, if he want something.
Wouldn't Satan already know this or know that there is nothing he would be able to tempt God with? But also that trying to tempt Jesus as the Son of God having "access" to God and whatever he can do, that this is clearly a lost cause from the beginning.

So does this temptation story even make sense in the first place?

Matthew 4:1-11
1 After this, Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
2 After fasting for 40 days and 40 nights, he finally became hungry.
3 Then the tempter came. "Since you are the Son of God," he said, "tell these stones to become loaves of bread."
4 But he answered, "It is written, 'One must not live on bread alone, but on every word coming out of the mouth of God.'"
5 Then the devil took him to the Holy City and had him stand on the highest point of the Temple.
6 He told Jesus, "Since you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, because it is written, 'God will put his angels in charge of you,' and 'With their hands they will hold you up, so that you will never hit your foot against a rock.'"
7 Jesus responded to him, "It is also written, 'You must not tempt the Lord your God.'"
8 Once more the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, along with their splendor.
9 He told Jesus, "I will give you all these things if you will bow down and worship me!"
10 Then Jesus told him, "Go away, Satan! Because it is written, 'You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.'"
11 So the devil left him, and angels came and began ministering to him.

I don't think it is very difficult. Jesus was truly Man and thus subject to the same temptations as we all are. He did not succumb to these temptations of course. Personifying temptations as being due to Satan is what they did at that time but I think it is figurative.

 

[exchemist]

Makes perfect sense to me because as well as being the Son of God, second Person of the Trinity, He was human. The purpose of God becoming human and facing temptations in His humanity was on our behalf. Jesus overcame Satan’ s lies and temptations whereas humans fail. Jesus was the victory for us, along with paying for all the sins of the world on the cross. His victory and payment is applied to the lives of all who believe and trust Him as their Savior.

I would give you a like, but for my reservations about the concept of "payment". (There was a thread recently on the various interpretations of atonement.)

 

[Niblo]

Guess so. Fortunately for you, eh?
Before I was 12, many of my childhood friends could leave their homes in the morning and go home after dark and never be asked where they had been by an adult. And that was in Oklahoma in 1950s

Standard practice in the South Wales Valleys of the 50s. A school holiday (especially August) would see us out all day...with maybe a brief return home for food. Parents were glad to see the back of us.....can't imagine what they got up to in our absence!