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Featured Temptation of Jesus?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Nimos, Feb 11, 2020.

  1. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    What is the explanation for the temptation of Jesus. If Jesus is God (Trinity) or even if not, but said to inherit the kingdom of God, depending on how one understand it.

    What is the purpose of these verses then? Because Satan clearly know that Jesus is the Son of God, but if Jesus is as some claim, part of the holy trinity. Then Satan must be immensely stupid trying to tempt God with basically nothing, as God already have everything or can create it, if he want something.
    Wouldn't Satan already know this or know that there is nothing he would be able to tempt God with? But also that trying to tempt Jesus as the Son of God having "access" to God and whatever he can do, that this is clearly a lost cause from the beginning.

    So does this temptation story even make sense in the first place?

    Matthew 4:1-11
    1 After this, Jesus was led by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.
    2 After fasting for 40 days and 40 nights, he finally became hungry.
    3 Then the tempter came. "Since you are the Son of God," he said, "tell these stones to become loaves of bread."
    4 But he answered, "It is written, 'One must not live on bread alone, but on every word coming out of the mouth of God.'"
    5 Then the devil took him to the Holy City and had him stand on the highest point of the Temple.
    6 He told Jesus, "Since you are the Son of God, throw yourself down, because it is written, 'God will put his angels in charge of you,' and 'With their hands they will hold you up, so that you will never hit your foot against a rock.'"
    7 Jesus responded to him, "It is also written, 'You must not tempt the Lord your God.'"
    8 Once more the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all the kingdoms of the world, along with their splendor.
    9 He told Jesus, "I will give you all these things if you will bow down and worship me!"
    10 Then Jesus told him, "Go away, Satan! Because it is written, 'You must worship the Lord your God and serve only him.'"
    11 So the devil left him, and angels came and began ministering to him.
     
  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    I tend to take as likely being more of a myth* to show that even Jesus was tempted at times.


    *obviously "myth" does not mean nor imply falsehood
     
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  3. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Free spirit

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    In a way the verse sound like it describe a time in the life of Jesus before he awakens to the truth, kind of test of temptation, but i am no expert on the bible :)
     
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  4. Iymus

    Iymus Active Member

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    Your question is not for me but I want to mention it seems that; The Holy Ghost which is the Spirit and Wisdom of God led him in wilderness to be tempted.

    Luk 4:1 And Jesus being full of the Holy Ghost returned from Jordan, and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness,
    Luk 4:2 Being forty days tempted of the devil. And in those days he did eat nothing: and when they were ended, he afterward hungered.
     
  5. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    I doubt it :) Because the verses just before, are these, if we are to believe that these are in the correct order:

    Matthew 3:13-17
    13 Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John.
    14 But John tried to stop him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and are you coming to me?"
    15 But Jesus answered him, "Let it be this way for now, because this is the proper way for us to fulfill all righteousness." At this, he permitted him to be baptized.
    16 When Jesus had been baptized, he immediately came up out of the water. Suddenly the heavens opened up for him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and coming to rest on him.
    17 Then a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love. I am pleased with him!"


    So Jesus must have know who he is at this point, or God must have been fairly disappointed at least. :D

    (Besides that, Jesus must have had some other experiences with God before this. Even though it might not be directly written.)
     
  6. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Free spirit

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    The bible have been altered unfortunately many times, so we can not for sure know if the verses are in correct order. Human beings in later years made changed to the texts in some areas of the bible, so this made it more difficult to know the full truth. And many verses who may should have been in the bible are not. many Gnostic texts missing as far as i know
     
  7. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    I agree with this. It's symbolic the struggle between Truth and illusion. Does he listen to the ego and make it about himself and vain praises, or does he listen to God or the Self and choose the path of surrender of the ego to the Divine? It's the last final release of the ego. "You could have it all!", and the response, "That's all illusion. Only Truth is real".
     
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  8. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    I think what you fail to recognize is the dual nature of Jesus, and all humans for that matter. In church theology they call it the hypostatic union. That is that Jesus was fully divine, and fully human. The fully human part of Jesus in this story, is what is tempted. It's the struggle of all humans. Do we listen to the ego, "give me, mine, want, me, me, mine," or do we let that all go and surrender to God? That's what the story is about. When we choose the divine path, we no longer obey the ego. And we are Free.
     
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  9. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

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    Quite possibly so, imo.
     
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  10. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    Just so I understand you, so Jesus switch between his divine self and human self? Im not really sure I understand how that is working or even how you would back up that claim?

    Also how do you know when its the divine Jesus and the none divine one in the varies verses?
     
  11. BSM1

    BSM1 What? Me worry?

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    Good point. Like Scorsese seems to ask in his movie "The Last Temptation Of Christ", when did Jesus realize his divinity?
     
  12. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Free spirit

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    I do not know at what age Jesus realize the truth that become his teaching. But the temptation would only work on a person before an awakening take place. Because as others here said, the ego is gone when someone are realizing awakening (enlightenment)
     
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  13. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    Indeed. In fact, a popular myth among many is that myths are meaningless and purposeless tales about beings that couldn't possibly exist doing impossible things in impossible circumstances. IMO, that definition raises serious doubts in my mind about the sanity of anyone who wastes time reading the myths and then complains about their plots, structures, and choice of characters.
     
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  14. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    I think the closest we can get to this is from Luke, which also give us some clues, to what Jesus knew and didn't.

    Luke 2:41-52
    41 Every year Jesus' parents would go to Jerusalem for the Passover Festival.

    42 When Jesus was twelve years old, they went up to the festival as usual.

    So according to this he is twelve when this happens.

    43 When the days of the festival were over, they left for home. The young man Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, but his parents did not know it.
    44 They thought that he was in their group of travelers. After traveling for a day, they started looking for him among their relatives and friends.
    45 When they did not find him, they returned to Jerusalem, searching desperately for him.
    46 Three days later they found him in the Temple sitting among the teachers, listening to them, and posing questions to them.

    This is just funny that they haven't noticed that he have been gone for a day, call child services? :D

    47 All who heard him were amazed at his intelligence and his answers.
    48 When Jesus' parents saw him, they were shocked. His mother asked him, "Son, why have you treated us like this? Your father and I have been worried sick looking for you!"
    49 He asked them, "Why were you looking for me? Didn't you know that I had to be in my Father's house?"

    50 But they did not understand what he told them.
    51 Then he went back with them, returning to Nazareth and remaining in submission to them. His mother continued to treasure all these things in her heart.
    52 Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.


    This is fairly interesting, Because Mary tells him that she and his father have been looking for him. To which Jesus reply, that he have been in his father's house and ask why they have been looking for him, as he apparently seems to think that he is already home. He obviously must know that Josef do not own the temple, so I think its pretty clear that he is referring to God, his real father.

    Again he is only 12 years old at this point, so its a rather strange way to talk, if he do not know that he is the son of God.
     
    #14 Nimos, Feb 11, 2020
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  15. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    Funny?? Let me guess: you don't have any kids, do you?
    What's funny is that you turned "traveling for a day" into "not noticing that he had been gone for five days".
     
  16. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    No I don't have any kids. But Im pretty sure that when I was 12 years old my parents would know where I was, especially when travelling and leaving what must have been considered a quite busy city during the end of a Passover festival, where one would assume that Jesus family were not the only one visiting. But guess we are all raised differently.

    I changed it, because I miscalculated, that was just a mistake. Which changes little in regards to my point as far as I see.
     
  17. Terry Sampson

    Terry Sampson Well-Known Member

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    What truth do you think became his teaching?
    Take note: the story says "the temptation did not work."
    You seem to equate a person's self-identity as a child of God and self-realization of one's divinity? Interesting.
    Maybe we should call a traditional Jew into this thread and ask them if they think they are a son or daughter of God and, if so, how old they were when they realized that they are divine.
     
  18. Seeker of White Light

    Seeker of White Light Free spirit

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    Much of what is still in the bible comes from Jesus in my understanding, but it has been written down by followers later on in time. Much of what is written that it comes from God is actually what Jesus realized and what he was teaching. But this is only my understanding of it, so it might not be this way at all.
     
  19. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    Think of it in terms like this. We are body, mind, soul, and spirit. We aren't one one minute, and another the next. We are all of these simulataneously. But we speak of them in divisions only for the purpose to identify a predominant aspect of ourselves. We don't quit have a spiritual nature, while we are focused on thinking, or while we are moving the body around.

    So in the story of the temptation, like us, Jesus's human side, namely his ego, faced having to bring that into sumbmission to Spirit. It's the same with us. It's not that we don't have a spiritual nature. But we may not listen to it, because we are too obsessed with the ego. This is a common thing. And Jesus in the story shows how we can overcome that. He did, so we can too. "He was tempted in all ways as are we", says the Apostle Paul.

    The divine is not tempted. But the human ego is. So it's obvious what was being tempted. It's obvious when it's divine, as it speaks Truth to the spirit.
     
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  20. Windwalker

    Windwalker Veteran Member
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    There is a difference between knowing you are a spiritual being, and another to fully awaken to what that means. The Bible also says that Jesus grew. You don't think he grew spiritually, that he didn't realize his full spiritual potential until after he matured? That he would call God his father at 12, does not mean he didn't have to face temptations by being human first in later life, before fully realizing his fundamental nature as divine. At 12, you're not exactly ripe yet. You still have some maturing to do. :)
     
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