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Featured Telling someone they are doomed ( spiritually)

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Amanaki, Sep 24, 2020.

  1. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    If you tell someone " you have the wrong faith or belief, you are doomed"
    Would that not be to put you self in Gods place and pretend you know that someone else is so bad as a human being that this person will be doomed to hell when time is up?

    Can that statement in it self send the person who judge others, be what lead themselves to go to that very place of hell instead?
     
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  2. Hellbound Serpiente

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    Indeed, sir. Even saints and prophets weren't send to be dictator over people. First, they were commanded by God to tell the people the error in their way with sound reasoning, logic and proofs, and forewarn them that such behavior leads to destruction, and they should change their way to avoid impending doom. Sometimes they carried this work for years despite of suffering countless persecution, oppression and evil. The only time people were truly punished was when people were adamant over their evil-doing and harmed a lot of innocent souls, which caused the prophets to cursed these oppressors in order to end their evil and discourage other from doing the same evil they did.

    I see in a lot of Moslims and Christians that they act like they are dictator over people. Going around persecuting people over things that they don't even know if it wrong/harmful. These people are inherently sadistic hypocrites who only wants to harm people for stoke their own ego and sadistic desire, rather than caring about goodness, morality, truth and justice.
     
    #2 Hellbound Serpiente, Sep 24, 2020
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  3. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Sākṣī
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    I don't think anyone is spiritually doomed.

    But I do think that standing in judgment of others and self can most certainly put someone in hell.

    So stop being so darned judgy, people*!!


    *unless you're actually a judge, then as you were.
     
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  4. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    I read your answer and was thinking hmmmmm, then i saw the tiny line of words in the bottom and started laughing :D
     
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  5. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Sākṣī
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    Yep. Always read the fine print. ;)
     
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  6. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I don't think the person who said it would be doomed, as I don't believe in being doomed at all. What a horribly mean thought! To be doomed for eternity, by an angry god.

    I just think that comes from a really immature person who uses rudeness as a tool to boost their own ego, or to be mean. It fails miserably.
     
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  7. Nimos

    Nimos Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't worry to much about it, if you are talking Judaism, Christianity or Islam, it is made pretty clear in the scriptures what will happen to those of wrong faith. This is something that all religious people automatically accept and choose to live with or they close their eyes to it and ignore. Judaism is probably the most humane of these, in my opinion.

    I don't really think that, the way you are thinking about it, was the way it was intended to be thought of :) But rather it should make you feel special and privilege that you are not part of those that end up in hell. After all God knows best right? so he probably have a good reason for throwing us in hell :)

    I actually remember when I had a talk with a JW and at the end, when she "gave up" trying to save me. Which is basically what their goal is by spreading the word of God, to make sure that people can be saved and go to the new Earth, where everything is perfectly fine, with no suffering and evil etc. before the apocalypse.

    But I had gotten to know her sort of well over the two years of chatting, so I asked her how she would feel going to this new Earth knowing that she had not been able to save me and whether she would feel guilty or not, and how that would work with the new Earth. Unfortunately I can't remember what she answered. But I think its a question that all religious people have to deal with.

    If you are saved, how are you going to live in heaven or the new Earth or wherever you go, knowing that all your friends, family etc. are spending their time in hell. Imagine you lived everyday here on Earth, knowing that somewhere your parents, maybe even your child or some of your friends were being tortured 24/7, and we are not just talking waterboarding and being slapped around a bit here. While you sit here writing posts, drinking a cup of coffee and in general having a nice day. :) Honestly for me, I would consider such life close to being equal of that of hell.

    And even if God make it so you can't remember anything, then they are still being tortured, God just "made" you look the other way. I don't know how religious people work that out, if they believe in hell.

    So again I really wouldn't worry to much about telling people they have wrong faith or beliefs, by choosing one of these religions, you automatically sort of accept their fate anyway, how you are going to live with it, would worry me a whole lot more, if you ask me, to be honest.
     
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  8. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    I like your reply :)

    The thing i noticed in Islam teching is that I am not saved just by accepting Allah and Muhammad, it is a constant practice of becoming better as a human being, and if i was to judge 8thers before my self ( meaning, telling them how wrong they are) it is actually I that would be wrong. Not them.
    Because if i cant live up to the rules in Islam my self, how can i tell others they are doomed, to me it would seal my own faith. So Nope, i am not going to tell others they have a wrong faith or religion , its just not how i understand thecteaching of Islam :)
     
  9. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    I don't think you get sent to hell for being stupid, so no.

    But it is pretty stupid to pronounce on how someone will be judged after death. How can anyone who believes in a merciful God know? And it is pretty stupid for another reason too. What effect does a person saying this think it will have on the listener? Since they don't share the faith of the person saying it, why would they believe them? On the contrary, it is almost bound to antagonise them. Not a great way to win converts.
     
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  10. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

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    Broadly speaking, I think there are two kinds of people who tell others that they're in danger of going to Hell.

    The first group is the one I have a little bit of sympathy for. They firmly believe in Hell and that certain actions can lead somebody there. The thought of somebody being damned horrifies them and so they want people to avoid such an awful outcome. I personally consider these people misguided and sometimes irritating but I don't think they're judging out of malice.

    The second group is the one I have no sympathy for. The concept of Hell excites them and they delight in the thought of certain groups enduring eternal suffering. I can't remember exactly where I saw this but there was a conversation about how people envision Hell. Answers ranged from seeing it as a temporary state, complete separation from God, a state of perpetual regret and so on. One person dismissed these interpretations and said that they liked the simple brutality of eternal fire. They liked it.

    Now my personal stance is agnosticism towards the existence of an afterlife. I also consider eternal Hell completely unjustified and I wouldn't want to see anybody sent there. If Hell is temporary though, a short stint in there for the latter group I described might well be a valuable lesson to them.*


    *By temporary I don't mean thousands of years of agony which is also unjustified. Perhaps a year or two in detention with the most boring teacher imaginable giving a lecture on why the people sat in their classroom behaved badly.
     
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  11. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Your short stint more or less corresponds to the Catholic idea of Purgatory.
     
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  12. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

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    Potentially, I don't know a great deal about the Catholic concept of Purgatory other than that it's meant to purify the people there (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong there).

    I have far fewer issues with temporary Hell/Purgatory concepts than eternal ones. However, whether I personally consider them justified depends on a few factors:

    1. How severe is the punishment? If somebody is being boiled alive or hacked into pieces for example, I would consider that unjustified.

    2. How long is the duration? Some interpretations of these correctional afterlives involve staying for millennia. I don't see how that achieves anything.

    3. Is there a purpose to it beyond just punishment? If somebody isn't learning what they did wrong and why it was wrong then nothing is being achieved other than vengeance and/or sadism.
     
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  13. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Faith is just a belief and belief has been proven wrong.

    Why its definition says so.
    an acceptance that something exists or is true, especially one without proof.
    "his belief in extra terrestrial life" · 
    guess · speculation · surmise · 
    [more]

    If you propose a thesis, belief then you are meant to explain the relativity.
    Hell
    a place regarded in various religions as a spiritual realm of evil and suffering, often traditionally depicted as a place of perpetual fire beneath the earth where the wicked are punished after death.

    So if you do some research EL was determined to reference God power and HE is the male theist. And he will is he'll.

    Then you would have to ask the theist what are you discussing in symbolic terms, which science is. Owner of symbolism in its expressive teachings. Old science language.

    Proverbs 24:19-20
    Fret not yourself because of evildoers, and be not envious of the wicked, for the evil man has no future; the lamp of the wicked will be put out.
    Hebrews 10:26
    For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins

    If you theorise original sin it is the spirit gases burning in natural history, the heat within the God stone body.

    Doing evil historically is about the practice of God stone conversion in philosophical alchemy, as a practice.

    Science has existed before as a practice in civilization and it was a discussion about cause and effect relating to fusion. Seeing all information is researched and theorised by humans.

    It is asking a question how do you know such destructive reasoning in science about converting? To then understand that science discusses a lot of information that is harmful and destructive to human life, as a rational human expression.

    Irrational teaching came about by human choice to be unreasonable.
     
  14. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Who knows? I have had both hell and purgatory explained to me as being sort of self-inflicted, by a sinful person being confronted with their shortcomings and either gradually expressing contrition and resolving it, or being too far gone and filled with permanent self-hate. But this was just one parish priest, many years ago, speculating.
     
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  15. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    If you lived on Earth as just one self, as a one concept, stating everything you look at is one....then what form of discussion would that one self own?

    For everyone is just that one self. So when we own the ability to think as just one, then if you personally perpetuated that inferred status, then everything you currently believe would be proven false.
     
  16. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

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    I think, "Who knows?" is perhaps the most sensible approach to discussing the afterlife. Believing or disbelieving is one thing but knowing is a different beast entirely.
     
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  17. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Actually, in most cases it is simply saying what the scriptures of that religion is saying, which is in turn believed to be god's words.

    In the bible for example, there are quite a few passages that make it clear that if you don't believe in its message, you are by default doomed and locked out of heaven.

    So from the perspective of the bible believer, saying such a thing is not "playing god". It rather is just repeating what god said.

    Not according to those scriptures. In case of the bible again, christians are called upon to "spread the word". So the bible itself tells its followers to go around and say these things.
     
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  18. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    Spreading the word can be done without harming others by telling them they are wrong.
    When it comes to what example the bible say it is meant for those who follow the teaching. So if a person is not a Christian he is not following Gods words.
    For muslims the word of God is in the Quran so when a non muslim is not following the word in the Quran yes then they do not follow Allah's words.
    But it is not a human beings right to judge others. Only God can do that.
     
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  19. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Well-Known Member

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    Have you also noticed that no matter how good a human you are, there won't be a place in paradise for you if you do NOT accept Allah and Muhammad?

    Islam is the of the same exclusivist nature as christianity is in that sense.
    If you heared the "message" and don't believe, it's off to hell with you - no matter who you are and what you did or didn't do in life.

    Believing is requirement number 1 (if you are aware of the religion and what it says).


    Perhaps if you say it to other muslims.
    But not if you say it to non-believers. When it concerns non-believers, then you are simply repeating what the scriptures themself say.


    The quran flat out states, in unambiguous terms, that unbelievers (and polytheists to, if I remember correctly) will be send to hell.
     
  20. Amanaki

    Amanaki Veteran Member

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    I have accepted both Allah and Muhammad:) and Islam teaching speak to muslims not to others, so it is my duty as a muslim to be as good as i can.

    It does say that if I as a muslim do evil I will go to hell too.
    I have no need to judge others and think i am better then anybody else. All i want is to practice my belief.
     
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