Tea and Coffee??

[Watchmen]

Note op
I have had a lot of questions on why we do not drink tea and coffee and apart from "Because it is in the word of wisdom", I don't know what the reasoning behind it is. As I am not fussed about tea and coffee - like many other people seem to be - I never questioned it.

Therefore what is the reasoning behind it? so I can give a better answer to those who ask?

kat, dont get intimidated because you cant answer this question. (neither can the majority of the lds) i dont think that the op does not adhere to the wow, nor is trying to belittle it. the question is warrented and asked by many perspective converts including myself.

so far this thread has NOT answered the question. i DO believe that the purpose of this forum IS debate.

I have a Jewish friend who told me dietary laws exist for the simple test: God says, If you believe in me do x,y,z. Either we do it or not.

 

[sniper762]

i agree, but still the op's questiion isn't answered.

 

[Katzpur]

so far this thread has NOT answered the question. i DO believe that the purpose of this forum IS debate.

The purpose of this forum is NOT for debate. That's your first mistake. With 800+ posts to your credit, maybe it's time for you to read the rules, or if that's too much trouble, read this instead.

 

[Watchmen]

I have had a lot of questions on why we do not drink tea and coffee and apart from "Because it is in the word of wisdom", I don't know what the reasoning behind it is. As I am not fussed about tea and coffee - like many other people seem to be - I never questioned it.

Therefore what is the reasoning behind it? so I can give a better answer to those who ask?

Also where does Coke/Diet Coke stand in this? I saw some LDS members on a programme once who don't drink Coke, but it is not in the Word of Wisdom, so is this just a personal thing?

At the end of the day, it's all a "personal thing" between you and the Lord.

 

[Katzpur]

just to remind all of the mission statement under the "rules" tab. note "debate"

Mission StatementAs a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and DEBATE religion while engaging in fellowship with one another.Mission StatementAs a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and debate religion while engaging in fellowship with one another.Mission StatementAs a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and debate religion while engaging in fellowship with one another.Mission StatementAs a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and debate religion while engaging in fellowship with one another.Mission StatementAs a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and debate religion while engaging in fellowship with one another.Mission StatementAs a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and debate religion while engaging in fellowship with one another.Mission StatementAs a community of diverse cultural and religious backgrounds, our aim is to provide a civil environment, informative, respectful and welcoming where people of diverse beliefs can discuss, compare and debate religion while engaging in fellowship with one another.

10. Discuss Individual Religions Forums
The DIR forums are for the express use for discussion by that specific group. They are not to be used for debate by anyone. People of other groups or faiths may post respectful questions to increase their understanding. Questions of a rhetorical or argumentative nature or that counter the beliefs of that DIR are not permitted. Only posts that comply with the tenets or spirit of that DIR are permitted. DIR areas are not to be used as cover to bash others outside the faith. The DIR forums are strictly moderated and posts are subject to editing or removal.

We LDS are not opposed to debating our religious beliefs. We just don't want to do so on our DIR forum. You don't want to obey the forum rules? Maybe you will when a moderator forces the issue.

 

[sniper762]

i think that you are confusing the issue.

also, you seem to enjoy "debating" until you are LOSING

 

[Katzpur]

i think that you are confusing the issue.

Trust me, I'm not. After 20,000 posts, I have a pretty good idea of what the rules are.

also, you seem to enjoy "debating" until you are LOSING

There is no debate to be lost, sniper. But enjoy your debate fantasy until your posts are deleted. It's only a matter of time.

 

[sniper762]

if i go, then so should you

 

[Katzpur]

if i go, then so should you

If you go, I won't need to. Besides, I'm LDS and have every right to be here, to respond to questions about my beliefs.

 

[sniper762]

yes we do

 

[Katzpur]

yes we do

If you're LDS, then you need to identify as LDS. You are currently identified as "Junior Member." Even if you are LDS, you should not be attempting to debate LDS doctrine in the LDS DIR forum, but with other Latter-day Saints in a separate thread in the Same Faith Debates forum. If you are LDS, the views you post in the LDS DIR should not be contrary to the views of the LDS Church. Again, you assume you know the rules, but you clearly don't.

 

[sniper762]

is it a rule that i disclose my religious faith. according to others i see, evidently not

you never know WHO you are debating with.

labeling one can create preconceived bias.

i prefer to hear and give an individual's response to a subject, not a denominational generic response. this was the very intent of the op to this thread.

 

[Katzpur]

is it a rule that i disclose my religious faith. according to others i see, evidently not

If you are going to speak as a member of any religion on their DIR forum, you must. Otherwise, you don't have to. There would be no point to the DIR forums at all if anybody and everybody were permitted to speak as a representative of that faith and put forth any opinion he wanted to. The whole point of the DIR forums is to provide interested parties with accurate information on a specific belief system -- not opinions from random people who may or may not have sufficient background to be giving their input, but from practicing adherents of that faith.

you never know WHO you are debating with.

Unfortunately, that's true, but on a DIR forum, you shouldn't be "debating" in the first place. In the second place, if you can't trust the fact that people who are answering your questions there are, in fact, who they claim to be -- believing members of the Church in question -- then the DIR threads serve no purpose. Any non-practicing member of the Church, in other words, any member of a Church who takes issue with the doctrines of that Church and tries to persuade others that the doctrines of that Church are wrong is being completely hypocritical in posting on the DIR forum.

labeling one can create preconceived bias.

In the case of the DIR forums, it's a bias with a good purpose. Otherwise, I would agree with you.

i prefer to hear and give an individual's response to a subject, not a denominational generic response. this was the very intent of the op to this thread.

Well, you've seen quite a number of responses from practicing members of the Church. These have all been individual responses, but they have all been in line with Church doctrine. You are now attempting to find holes in the Word of Wisdom and your questions are "of a rhetorical or argumentative nature." This is what is against the forum rules.

This is the last post you'll see from me on this issue. If I were you, I'd just go back and delete the last several of your posts, before someone on the staff does it for you. If you delete yours, I'll delete my responses to them. If you don't, they will definitely get around to it, at which time my responses will also be deleted, which is fine with me. I don't understand why you can't just admit that you misunderstood the terms of service and save yourself getting called on the carpet. Seems to me, I'm suggesting an easy out for you, but suit yourself.

 

[sniper762]

look at all these like "body of science" and "are you kidding me". thats their listed "religion", ARE THEY RELIGIONS?

im not a puppet. i speak of what i know or believe, similar to the op, which you can or will not state YOUR individual response but merely that of the lds affilliation. (SAFE)

at least when one posts "atheist", you can pretty much peg his response. jw, budhist, satanist or lds, you get the picture?

 

[sniper762]

I have a copy of "Mormonism for Dummies" that has a pretty accurate little run-down of what's okay and what's not. Of course, you have to keep in mind that this list is no more authoritative than a list I might come up with. But since I pretty much agree with the authors, I'll post what they had to say...

Definitely okay:
Hot apple cider and hot cocoa
Caffeine-free soft drinks
Chocolate (which Marie Osmond has labeled "Mormon medication")
Moderate quantities of meat
Postum (which is fine from the perspective of Mormon orthodoxy, though maybe not from the standpoint of good taste)
A diet rich in grains and vegetables

Probably okay:
Herbal tea (according to the Word of Wisdom, herbs are "to be used with prudence and thanksgiving)
Cooking with wine, because the alcohol content burns off during cooking. (Some very conservative Mormons, however, won't use so much as a teaspoon of vanilla estract in a batch of chocolate-chip cookies.)

Possibly okay:
Non-alcoholic beer and sparkling cider, rather than champagne. (However, some Mormons think they should avoid even looking like they're drinking forbidden substances, because drinking them may confuse people.)

Probably not okay, but no one knows for sure:
Decaffeinated coffee. (A June, 1988 article in the official Church magazine never said that decaf in forbidden, but it did take pains to point out that decaf drinkers suffer elevated risk for ulcers and other gastrointertinal difficulties. However, bishops and stake presidents aren't supposed to deny a member a temple recommend for drinking decaf, and Apostle John Widstoe advised members that consumption of decaffeinated drinks isn't against the Word of Wisdom.)

Definitely not okay:
Alcohol, including wine and beer
Black tea, green tea, and other caffeinated teas
Coffee and recipes that use it
Iced coffee and iced caffeinated tea
Illegal drugs, recreational drugs, and illicit prescription medications
Tobacco

Note: Caffeinated soda -- The Church urges its members to resolve the issue themselves through prayer and study. When thinking about whether the Word of Wisdom forbids a certain substance, Mormons should ask themselves these questions:

Is it habit forming, illegal or potentially addictive?
Is it known to be harmful to health or spiritual well-being?

IS THIS "YOUR" VIEWS OR THOSE OF THE "MORMONISM FOR DUMMIES" AUTHOR?

 

[Katzpur]

Sniper, you really need to learn to use the quote function. It's not hard. The way you have posted in your post #76, the reader can't tell which comments are yours and which are mine.

I have a copy of "Mormonism for Dummies" that has a pretty accurate little run-down of what's okay and what's not. Of course, you have to keep in mind that this list is no more authoritative than a list I might come up with. But since I pretty much agree with the authors, I'll post what they had to say...

IS THIS "YOUR" VIEWS OR THOSE OF THE "MORMONISM FOR DUMMIES" AUTHOR?

The answer to this question should be obvious to anyone. I said, "You have to keep in mind that this list is no more authoritative than a list I might come up with, but I pretty much agree with the authors." How much more plainly could I have put it?

 

[sniper762]

NEVERTHELESS, my point is made

its easy to use someone elses views and adopt them as your own (puppeteering), especially when they are the mainstream to ones affilliation AND UNCONTESTED.

there's nothing wrong nor unfaithful about forming your OWN views, be they may not be mainstream to the lds church.

in my 30 year research into religions, including investigating the lds faith, i have found several questionable subjects interpreted by the church to mean a certain way that i (and apparently others, according to the op) may not fully adhere to. granted more that i concider the lds to be CLOSER than other denominations, some subjects still remain inadequately represented to me.

maintain your "holier than thou" or "i have all the right answers" if you may, but i choose to continue my investigating.

call me what you may, but my relationship with heavenly father is what it is, OURS.

 

[madhatter85]

"when in doubt do without" pretty sums it up. if you have to wonder "is this "REALLY" OK?? it's best to leave it alone.

 

[sniper762]

oh says the madhatter. not me

 

[madhatter85]

Probably okay:
Herbal tea (according to the Word of Wisdom, herbs are "to be used with prudence and thanksgiving)
Cooking with wine, because the alcohol content burns off during cooking. (Some very conservative Mormons, however, won't use so much as a teaspoon of vanilla estract in a batch of chocolate-chip cookies.)

Possibly okay:
Non-alcoholic beer and sparkling cider, rather than champagne. (However, some Mormons think they should avoid even looking like they're drinking forbidden substances, because drinking them may confuse people.)

the bold part is False
people really need to read this article before speaking: List of common misconceptions - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Some cooks believe that food items cooked with wine or liquor will be non-alcoholic, because alcohol's low boiling point causes it to evaporate quickly when heated. However, a study found that some of the alcohol remains: 25% after 1 hour of baking or simmering, and 10% after 2 hours.[40]
^ "Does alcohol burn off in cooking?". Ochef.com. Retrieved 2009-08-29.


the underlined part is doctrinally sound.

1st Thessalonians 5:
22. Abstain from all appearance of evil.