Taking on the Sin of the World

[sandy whitelinger]

I think it is well accepted that Adam was a type of Christ. That whole first Adam last Adam thing. My topic then is why Adam ate the fruit in the garden. Did Adam, being a type of Christ, feel it nescassary to take on Eve's sin (her's being the only sin available and thus being the "sin of the world") and suffer death in a similar episode as Christ taking on the sin of the world and dying for our redemption? Did Adam's action point towards Christ on the Cross in much the same way as the law served as a schoolmaster?

 

[michel]

I think it is well accepted that Adam was a type of Christ. That whole first Adam last Adam thing. My topic then is why Adam ate the fruit in the garden. Did Adam, being a type of Christ, feel it nescassary to take on Eve's sin (her's being the only sin available and thus being the "sin of the world") and suffer death in a similar episode as Christ taking on the sin of the world and dying for our redemption? Did Adam's action point towards Christ on the Cross in much the same way as the law served as a schoolmaster?

I personally don't subscriber to the old Testament, least of all Genesis ; the whole lot ios built oon 'shifting sands'.

I believe that God sent Jesus to atone for our sins, but forget Adam and Eve (in my opinion) - that, to me, is a parable for those who need a simple version to understand........

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I personally don't subscriber to the old Testament, least of all Genesis ; the whole lot ios built oon 'shifting sands'.

Genesis is the foundation for the rest of the Old and the New Testament. I think maybe you cath the last few minutes of sporting events as well?

I believe that God sent Jesus to atone for our sins, but forget Adam and Eve (in my opinion) - that, to me, is a parable for those who need a simple version to understand........

Parables in the Bible are always labeled as parables.

 

[michel]

Genesis is the foundation for the rest of the Old and the New Testament. I think maybe you cath the last few minutes of sporting events as well?

I believe that God sent Jesus to atone for our sins, but forget Adam and Eve (in my opinion) - that, to me, is a parable for those who need a simple version to understand........

Parables in the Bible are always labeled as parables.

Then we shall agree to disagree, amicably.

 

[mormonman]

I think it is well accepted that Adam was a type of Christ. That whole first Adam last Adam thing. My topic then is why Adam ate the fruit in the garden. Did Adam, being a type of Christ, feel it nescassary to take on Eve's sin (her's being the only sin available and thus being the "sin of the world") and suffer death in a similar episode as Christ taking on the sin of the world and dying for our redemption? Did Adam's action point towards Christ on the Cross in much the same way as the law served as a schoolmaster?

That's interesting. I never really thought about it that way. I usually look at it more black and white. God told them not to eat the fruit, but to repleinsh the earth. They couldn't reproduce in the Garden of Eden. They really couldn't follow one commandment w/o breaking the other. He also told Adam that he should "ceave unto his wife". If Adam wouldn't have eaten of the fruit he would have lived in the Garden forever, w/o Eve, thus disobeying that commandment also. On a side note it's funny how stupid Satan was. If he didn't get Eve to eat the fruit, Adam and Eve would have stayed in the Garden forever, ergo screwing up the plan of salvation.

 

[dawny0826]

I personally don't subscriber to the old Testament, least of all Genesis ; the whole lot ios built oon 'shifting sands'.

I believe that God sent Jesus to atone for our sins, but forget Adam and Eve (in my opinion) - that, to me, is a parable for those who need a simple version to understand........

As Michel said...Jesus Christ was sent to atone for our sins...not Adam.

 

[may]

I think it is well accepted that Adam was a type of Christ. That whole first Adam last Adam thing. My topic then is why Adam ate the fruit in the garden. Did Adam, being a type of Christ, feel it nescassary to take on Eve's sin (her's being the only sin available and thus being the "sin of the world") and suffer death in a similar episode as Christ taking on the sin of the world and dying for our redemption? Did Adam's action point towards Christ on the Cross in much the same way as the law served as a schoolmaster?

only Jesus could redeem what Adam had lost ,he lost us everlasting life , but Jesus is the way back to everlasting life

By means of him, "the last Adam," we may inherit marvelous blessings from God.—1 Corinthians 15:45; Revelation 21:3, 4.

Jesus Christ himself had said: "Just as the Son of man came, not to be ministered to, but to minister and to give his soul a RANSOM in exchange for many." This made it possible for those exercising faith in Jesus Christ to gain everlasting life.—Matthew 20:28; John 3:16

 

[Popeyesays]

I feel that there is great truth to the story of Adam and Eve, but it is not an historical truth. No reporter wrote the story. If you look at it for its metaphorical value, you will find much and if you want to uphold the literal version you are sinking in a morass of superstition.

I apologize for the length of this quote, but I think it should be read entirely to illustrate what I mean:
"ADAM AND EVE
Question. -- What is the truth of the story of Adam, and His eating of the fruit of the tree?
Answer. -- In the Bible it is written that God put Adam in the garden of Eden, to cultivate and take care of it, and said to Him: "Eat of every tree of the garden except the tree of good and evil, for if You eat of that, You will die."[1] Then it is said that God caused Adam to sleep, and He took one of His ribs and created woman in order that she might be His companion. After that it is said the serpent induced the woman to eat of the tree, saying: "God has forbidden you to eat of the tree in order that your eyes may not be opened, and that you may not know good from evil."[2] Then Eve ate from the tree and gave unto Adam, Who also ate; their eyes were opened, they found themselves naked, and they hid their bodies with leaves. In consequence of this act they received the reproaches of God. God said to Adam: "Hast Thou eaten of the forbidden tree?" Adam answered: "Eve tempted Me, and I did eat." God then reproved Eve; Eve said: "The serpent tempted me, and I did eat." For this the serpent was cursed, and enmity was put between the serpent and Eve, and between their descendants. And God said: "The man is become like unto Us, knowing good and evil, and perhaps He will eat of the tree of life and live forever." So God guarded the tree of life.[3]
[1 Cf. Gen. 2:16-17.]
[2 Cf. Gen. 3:5.]
[3 Cf. Gen. 3:11-15,22.] 123
If we take this story in its apparent meaning, according to the interpretation of the masses, it is indeed extraordinary. The intelligence cannot accept it, affirm it, or imagine it; for such arrangements, such details, such speeches and reproaches are far from being those of an intelligent man, how much less of the Divinity -- that Divinity Who has organized this infinite universe in the most perfect form, and its innumerable inhabitants with absolute system, strength and perfection.
We must reflect a little: if the literal meaning of this story were attributed to a wise man, certainly all would logically deny that this arrangement, this invention, could have emanated from an intelligent being. Therefore, this story of Adam and Eve who ate from the tree, and their expulsion from Paradise, must be thought of simply as a symbol. It contains divine mysteries and universal meanings, and it is capable of marvelous explanations. Only those who are initiated into mysteries, and those who are near the Court of the All-Powerful, are aware of these secrets. Hence these verses of the Bible have numerous meanings.
We will explain one of them, and we will say: Adam signifies the heavenly spirit of Adam, and Eve His human soul. For in some passages in the Holy Books where women are mentioned, they represent the soul of man. The tree of good and evil signifies the human world; for the spiritual and divine world is purely good and absolutely luminous, but in the human world light and darkness, good and evil, exist as opposite conditions.
The meaning of the serpent is attachment to the human world. This attachment of the spirit to the human world led the soul and spirit of Adam from the world of freedom to the world of bondage and caused Him to turn from the Kingdom of Unity to the human world. When the soul and spirit of Adam entered the human world, He came out from the paradise of freedom and fell into the world of 124 bondage. From the height of purity and absolute goodness, He entered into the world of good and evil.
The tree of life is the highest degree of the world of existence: the position of the Word of God, and the supreme Manifestation. Therefore, that position has been preserved; and, at the appearance of the most noble supreme Manifestation, it became apparent and clear. For the position of Adam, with regard to the appearance and manifestation of the divine perfections, was in the embryonic condition; the position of Christ was the condition of maturity and the age of reason; and the rising of the Greatest Luminary [1] was the condition of the perfection of the essence and of the qualities. This is why in the supreme Paradise the tree of life is the expression for the center of absolutely pure sanctity -- that is to say, of the divine supreme Manifestation. From the days of Adam until the days of Christ, They spoke little of eternal life and the heavenly universal perfections. This tree of life was the position of the Reality of Christ; through His manifestation it was planted and adorned with everlasting fruits.
[1 Bahá'u'lláh.]
Now consider how far this meaning conforms to the reality. For the spirit and the soul of Adam, when they were attached to the human world, passed from the world of freedom into the world of bondage, and His descendants continued in bondage. This attachment of the soul and spirit to the human world, which is sin, was inherited by the descendants of Adam, and is the serpent which is always in the midst of, and at enmity with, the spirits and the descendants of Adam. That enmity continues and endures. For attachment to the world has become the cause of the bondage of spirits, and this bondage is identical with sin, which has been transmitted from Adam to His posterity. It is because of this attachment that men 125 have been deprived of essential spirituality and exalted position.
When the sanctified breezes of Christ and the holy light of the Greatest Luminary [1] were spread abroad, the human realities -- that is to say, those who turned toward the Word of God and received the profusion of His bounties -- were saved from this attachment and sin, obtained everlasting life, were delivered from the chains of bondage, and attained to the world of liberty. They were freed from the vices of the human world, and were blessed by the virtues of the Kingdom. This is the meaning of the words of Christ, "I gave My blood for the life of the world"[2] -- that is to say, I have chosen all these troubles, these sufferings, calamities, and even the greatest martyrdom, to attain this object, the remission of sins (that is, the detachment of spirits from the human world, and their attraction to the divine world) in order that souls may arise who will be the very essence of the guidance of mankind, and the manifestations of the perfections of the Supreme Kingdom.
[1 Bahá'u'lláh.]
[2 Cf. John 6:51.]
Observe that if, according to the suppositions of the People of the Book,[1] the meaning were taken in its exoteric sense, it would be absolute injustice and complete predestination. If Adam sinned by going near the forbidden tree, what was the sin of the glorious Abraham, and what was the error of Moses the Interlocutor? What was the crime of Noah the Prophet? What was the transgression of Joseph the Truthful? What was the iniquity of the Prophets of God, and what was the trespass of John the Chaste? Would the justice of God have allowed these enlightened Manifestations, on account of the sin of Adam, to find torment in hell until Christ came and by the sacrifice of Himself saved them from excruciating tortures? Such an 126 idea is beyond every law and rule and cannot be accepted by any intelligent person.
[1 Jews and Christians.]
No; it means what has already been said: Adam is the spirit of Adam, and Eve is His soul; the tree is the human world, and the serpent is that attachment to this world which constitutes sin, and which has infected the descendants of Adam. Christ by His holy breezes saved men from this attachment and freed them from this sin. The sin in Adam is relative to His position. Although from this attachment there proceed results, nevertheless, attachment to the earthly world, in relation to attachment to the spiritual world, is considered as a sin. The good deeds of the righteous are the sins of the Near Ones. This is established. So bodily power is not only defective in relation to spiritual power; it is weakness in comparison. In the same way, physical life, in comparison with eternal life in the Kingdom, is considered as death. So Christ called the physical life death, and said: "Let the dead bury their dead."[1] Though those souls possessed physical life, yet in His eyes that life was death.
[1 Matt. 8:22.]
This is one of the meanings of the biblical story of Adam. Reflect until you discover the others.
Salutations be upon you."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 126)

Regards,
Scott

 

[Mike182]

im affraid my feet stand in line behind michel's - im not a follower of the old testiment

as far as i am aware, adam was a man, not God encarnate - which jesus was

 

[may]

im affraid my feet stand in line behind michel's - im not a follower of the old testiment

as far as i am aware, adam was a man, not God encarnate - which jesus was

yes Adam was a man , but Jesus was Gods only-begotten son ,
For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, in order that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life........... john3;16

(1 John 4:9) By this the love of God was made manifest in our case, because God sent forth his only-begotten Son into the world that we might gain life through him.

So the Word became flesh and resided among us, and we had a view of his glory, a glory such as belongs to an only-begotten son from a father; and he was full of undeserved kindness and truth John 1;14

Jesus was the only thing created by God alone , everything else created was through Jesus , but the power came from the father Jehovah God
Jesus"the firstborn of all creation," was used by Jehovah in creating all other things, those in the heavens and those upon the earth, "the things visible and the things invisible." (Col 1:15-17)

He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; .... collosians 1;15

 

[Green Gaia]

I think it is well accepted that Adam was a type of Christ.

Umm... no. Even among those of us who do not subsribe to a belief in Jesus' divinity, do not hold the fictional character of Adam anywhere close to being in the same league as Jesus.

 

[Peace]

I think it is well accepted that Adam was a type of Christ. That whole first Adam last Adam thing. My topic then is why Adam ate the fruit in the garden. Did Adam, being a type of Christ, feel it nescassary to take on Eve's sin (her's being the only sin available and thus being the "sin of the world") and suffer death in a similar episode as Christ taking on the sin of the world and dying for our redemption? Did Adam's action point towards Christ on the Cross in much the same way as the law served as a schoolmaster?

From an Islamic perspective, both Adam and Eve were guilty, the blame is not on Eve but on both of them. Nobody tempted the other but it was satan who tempted them. However, God is so Merciful and so forgiving and He did forgive Adam and Eve.
Nobody can or will take on others' sins. Everybody is responsible for his/her own sins and will be brought up to account in the day of judgement. But whoever repents for his/her sins, s/he will find a loving forgiving God.

Peace

 

[sandy whitelinger]

God told them not to eat the fruit, but to repleinsh the earth. They couldn't reproduce in the Garden of Eden. They really couldn't follow one commandment w/o breaking the other. He also told Adam that he should "ceave unto his wife". If Adam wouldn't have eaten of the fruit he would have lived in the Garden forever, w/o Eve, thus disobeying that commandment also. On a side note it's funny how stupid Satan was. If he didn't get Eve to eat the fruit, Adam and Eve would have stayed in the Garden forever, ergo screwing up the plan of salvation.

Are you implying that because Eve Ate the fruit and that Adam hadn't they would be physically unable to conceive? Or is it that with Eve's banishment from the garden and Adam not that Adam would also have been barred from Eve?

Umm... no. Even among those of us who do not subsribe to a belief in Jesus' divinity, do not hold the fictional character of Adam anywhere close to being in the same league as Jesus.

Adam in no way had the attributes or divinity of Christ (please those who don't believe in Christ's divinity start in here) but was a "type" of Christ in that he "resembled Christ either in his actions or circumstance. that is what is meant by looking a scriptural figures as a "type." Joseph is looked at as a type of Christ in this same manner.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

From an Islamic perspective, both Adam and Eve were guilty, the blame is not on Eve but on both of them. Nobody tempted the other but it was satan who tempted them. However, God is so Merciful and so forgiving and He did forgive Adam and Eve.
Nobody can or will take on others' sins. Everybody is responsible for his/her own sins and will be brought up to account in the day of judgement. But whoever repents for his/her sins, s/he will find a loving forgiving God.

Peace

So Adam only ate the fruit because he was deceived? Could you offer Koranic scripture for this?

 

[Evenstar]

I agree with michel, Dawny and Mike.... is this called been a sheep lol....

 

[Green Gaia]

Adam in no way had the attributes or divinity of Christ (please those who don't believe in Christ's divinity start in here) but was a "type" of Christ in that he "resembled Christ either in his actions or circumstance. that is what is meant by looking a scriptural figures as a "type." Joseph is looked at as a type of Christ in this same manner.

I can't see anything that the character Adam did that would support him being a Christ or a type of Christ (whatever that means).

 

[Popeyesays]

Umm... no. Even among those of us who do not subsribe to a belief in Jesus' divinity, do not hold the fictional character of Adam anywhere close to being in the same league as Jesus.

Baha`i's believe that "Adam" ws the first Manifestation of God in the "Adamic Cycle of Revelation". Was Adam really His name? Who knows? But someone was first to bear the revelation that God is ONE, and creation is His. Later Prophets and Divine Manifestations are part of the cycle which includes Jesus Christ. The last of the Adamic Cycle was the Bab, and Baha`u'llah begins a new cycle of Revelation which will last a half million years - during that time all the Prophets and Manifestations will be in the shelter and line of Baha`u'llah.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Nobody can or will take on others' sins. Everybody is responsible for his/her own sins and will be brought up to account in the day of judgement. But whoever repents for his/her sins, s/he will find a loving forgiving God.

Peace

I would agree with that.

but like Michael, I do not believe in a factual Adam and Eve.

Terry__________________________
Blessed are the pure of heart, they shall behold their God.

 

[michel]

Are you implying that because Eve Ate the fruit and that Adam hadn't they would be physically unable to conceive? Or is it that with Eve's banishment from the garden and Adam not that Adam would also have been barred from Eve?
I think the following is the best full explanation, if we are to accept the story at it's face value. The passage highlighted in red is pretty conclusive.
From:-http://www.catholic-forum.com/Saints/golden117.htm

God said: It is not good a man to be alone, make we to him an helper like to himself for to bring forth children. Adam supposed that some helper to him had been among the beasts which had been like to him. Therefore God brought to Adam all living beasts of the earth and air, in which be understood them of the water also, which with one commandment all came tofore him. They were brought for two causes, one was because man should give to each of them a name, by which they should know that he should dominate over them, and the second cause was because Adam should know that there was none of them like to him. And he named them in the Hebrew tongue, which was only the language and none other at the beginning. And so none being found like unto him, God sent in Adam a lust to sleep, which was no dream, but as is supposed in an extasy or in a trance; in which was showed to him the celestial court. Wherefore when he awoke he prophesied of the conjunction of Christ to his church, and of the flood that was to come, and of the doom and destruction of the world by fire he knew, which afterward he told to his children.

Whiles that Adam slept, God took one of his ribs, both flesh and bone, and made that a woman, and set her tofore Adam. Which then said: This is now a bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; and Adam gave her a name like as her lord, and said she should be called virago, which is as much as to say as made of a man, and is a name taken of a man. And anon, the name giving, he prophesied, saying: Because she is taken of the side of a man, therefore a man shall forsake and leave father and mother and abide and be adherent unto his wife, and they shall be two in one flesh; and though they be two persons, yet in matrimony and wedlock they be but one flesh, and in other things twain. For why, neither of them had power of his own flesh. They were both naked and were not ashamed, they felt nothing of the moving of their flesh, ne to refrain them as we now do, for they stood both in the state of innocence. Then the serpent which was hotter than any beast of the earth and naturally deceivable, for he was full of the devil Lucifer, which was deject and cast out of heaven, had great envy to man that was bodily in Paradise, and knew well, if he might make him to trespass and break God's commandments, that he should be cast out also. Yet he was afeard to be taken or espied of the man, he went to the woman, not so prudent and more prone to slide and bow. And in the form of the serpent, for then the serpent was erect as a man. Bede saith that he chose a serpent having a maiden's cheer, for like oft apply to like, and spake by the tongue of the serpent to Eve, and said: Why commanded you God that ye should not eat of all the trees of Paradise? This he said to find occasion to say that he was come for. Then the woman answered and said: Ne forte moriamur, lest haply we die, which she said doubting, for lightly she was flexible to every part. Whereunto anon he answered: Nay in no wise ye shall die, but God would not that ye should be like him in science, and knowing that when ye eat of this tree ye shall be as gods knowing good and evil, he as envious forbade you. And anon the woman, elate in pride and willing to be like to God, accorded thereto and believed him. The woman saw that the tree was fair to look on, and clean and sweet of savour, took and ate thereof, and gave unto Adam of the same; happily desiring him by fair words. But Adam anon agreed, for when he saw the woman not dead he supposed that God had said that they should die to fear them with, and then ate of the fruit forbidden. And anon their sight was opened that they saw their nakedness, and then anon they understood that they had trespassed, for anon their flesh began to move and stir to concupiscence. For before that they had eaten of the forbidden fruit, the movings were repressed and closed as in young children.

Adam in no way had the attributes or divinity of Christ (please those who don't believe in Christ's divinity start in here) but was a "type" of Christ in that he "resembled Christ either in his actions or circumstance. that is what is meant by looking a scriptural figures as a "type." Joseph is looked at as a type of Christ in this same manner.

I really don't understand the point you are making here.

 

[mormonman]

Are you implying that because Eve Ate the fruit and that Adam hadn't they would be physically unable to conceive? Or is it that with Eve's banishment from the garden and Adam not that Adam would also have been barred from Eve?



Adam in no way had the attributes or divinity of Christ (please those who don't believe in Christ's divinity start in here) but was a "type" of Christ in that he "resembled Christ either in his actions or circumstance. that is what is meant by looking a scriptural figures as a "type." Joseph is looked at as a type of Christ in this same manner.

When they were in the Garden of Eden they weren't able to conceive. If Adam wouldn't have eaten the friut and Eve had, Eve would have been kicked out of the Garden, and Adam would remain there. Because Adam ate the friut also, they were able to stay together, and have children.