rational experiences
Veteran Member
How old is a whale
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Supersessionism and beyond - Can Christianity meaningfully address religious pluralism?
- Thread starter Dawnofhope
- Start date
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I don't mean to be disrespectful, as I know you have it in your heart to be loving. But the truth is, you take our sacred texts and tell us that you know how to interpret them better than us; texts that were written about jews by jews for jews. If that's not superseding Judaism, I don't know what else it would be.
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Whales are dying along East Coast—and scientists are racing to understand why
The two parvorders of whales, baleen whales (Mysticeti) and toothed whales (Odontoceti), are thought to have split apart around 34 million years ago.
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: jonah
The theme about religious science quotes a history of DATA about why life was sacrificed. Jesus owned the last pyramid Temple science quotation/Data evidence of a history of why life was mutated and changed on Earth.
When whales own a history of evidences of large, big creature that survived being a large creature by living in the water, and owns an equated living length of time...then if you compared 34 million years worth of gas heavenly spirit support to whales dying today.....is the answer.
Relative to how much spirit, in science meaning gases has been removed to cause whales today in radiation mass causes to be dying unnaturally, seeing huge shoals of fish the same as huge flocks of birds were irradiated/killed in science causes.
What the religious/spiritual discussions about scientific occultism were actually taught for.
The two parvorders of whales, baleen whales (Mysticeti) and toothed whales (Odontoceti), are thought to have split apart around 34 million years ago.
BibleGateway - Keyword Search: jonah
The theme about religious science quotes a history of DATA about why life was sacrificed. Jesus owned the last pyramid Temple science quotation/Data evidence of a history of why life was mutated and changed on Earth.
When whales own a history of evidences of large, big creature that survived being a large creature by living in the water, and owns an equated living length of time...then if you compared 34 million years worth of gas heavenly spirit support to whales dying today.....is the answer.
Relative to how much spirit, in science meaning gases has been removed to cause whales today in radiation mass causes to be dying unnaturally, seeing huge shoals of fish the same as huge flocks of birds were irradiated/killed in science causes.
What the religious/spiritual discussions about scientific occultism were actually taught for.
At this rate, why even claim Moses himself was real?
Adrian I see, is sharing answers from the same source that gave the Jewish scriptures.
It is not Adrian that gave those interpretations, I see he shares them from the source.
Others do not have to see it that way.
Regards Tony
When have I ever said to you or claimed to be able to interpret the Jewish scriptures better than the you or any of the Jews? That would be extremely arrogant. I am of course very interested in what Jewish scriptures have to say but I would never claim expertise. Although I have taken some limited formal studies I have no qualifications and am clearly not an adherent of Judaism. Further, I would be a fool not to listen and consider what adherents of Judaism have to say about their own religion.
However, it is true the Baha’i Writings make commentary on Jewish Writings. To what extend a Baha’i view aligns or differs from Jewish thought is of considerable interest. However an adherent of Judaism has no obligation to accept Baha’i beliefs any more than a Baha’i is obligated to reject any Hebrew Prophets. Are we not both entitled to our beliefs and religious traditions?
rational experiences
Veteran Member
The review is written after the fact historically so it is defined as the statements we named as Moses...why Moses is present as identified male determined maths/science statements. It is the same question asked today was Jesus a real male or is that statement just a Maths/science term equated reference/title.
If a male in science says, I own proof that due to a mountain face being blackened as Mt. Sinai...my face got irradiated burnt...for having built my fake mountain ^ tip pyramid on the ground...as relative self advice.
If a male in science says, the mountains were ARK/UFO hit and melted....then he would have melted his stone in his Temples...claiming it was relative to him converting gold products, as the status.
So you could historically ask the male science community history did any of you own names as a human originally to define self? The answer would be no.
Then you might realize, oh, human males, the inventor of maths, theories before reactions gave everything a name including self. So then you could say, probably a male owning the name Moses did live, and it was his life realization in science that I am hearing, so gave it the title of man/male science statements about Moses.....yet the story was about what changes he was as a male causing to fusion, as a comparison male human inference.
So he would say such comments as the Egyptian Temple sciences had changed the Jewish DNA baby life....for the law (basket woven/reed) secret symbolism said so....was changing the natural state of water by LAW. As what the inference MOSES would have meant. A study of a male changing natural law.
Does not compute...the spirit succeeds the mind. Power to Africa, power to China.....the law is naught. LAW is all, yet nothing besides. god the planet earth wills his people to walk among the Apes. She demands power.
What is left besides ancient aliens?
What is the the knowledge besides walking with giants? Only Moses who is a man but not...only he who knows the way but not knows the power, the will and mind. POWER unspeakable, power unheard of. Strength to the cobra that is Pharaoh...strength to the sciencing Israelites...
Pyramids are the dna of the fallen.
Based on historical evidence outside Abrahamic Scriptures, there is little if anything to confirm Moses existed or the Israelites were in Egypt. So it is a matter of personal faith that I believe the Prophet Moses existed through whom God Revealed Himself. The Torah I believe had its origins based on God’s Revelation through Moses. That is my Faith based on authoritative Baha’i Writings that I also regard as being inspired by God.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Tony, that's a belief of yours. It's not something that you can prove.
What I said stands. The Torah (and all the Tanakh) was written by Jews about Jews for Jews. I have no problem with any of you getting inspired by them. I just take issue when people who are outside the People of Israel want to come in and say they somehow understand them better. There's just no way you can take those scriptures outside of the context of the Jewish people and come up with a better understanding.
But we've been over this territory before, my friend. We aren't going to reach an agreement on this.
But Abraham and Noah and such get only a "perhaps"? Just wondering why. Or did you mean it in the same sense?
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Yes, while you may not have said anything personally, Baha'i makes the claim that certain prophecies mean certain things, and you adhere to Baha'i.
As I've said many times, when the rubber meets the road, I'm not really all that interested in a person's theology. I just want to see that they worship God and are good moral people. Bahai's are a-okay in my book.
But yes, I find it mildly irritating that Baha'i misappropriates our religious texts. That word, "cultural misappropriation," (sometimes called cultural appropriation) is loaded. May I suggest you look into its fuller meaning? You would not only have a better understanding how many Jews feel, but it would give you great insight into what minority communities around the world feel about it when elements of their culture is harvested inappropriately by others.
I suspect I’ve shared this with you before. If not:
As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended.
Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promised Day Is Come, Pages 108-113
What is the area of difference you believe existed between Ken and myself?
rational experiences
Veteran Member
Science did not exist FIRST.
Male however as a human looks back historically to unnatural Earth conditions when no Nature existed whilst it was in a reaction causation of Sun to earth attack, flooded Earth. Theme ^ mountain tip - flat top mountain only water left.
Yet that theme did not own natural O God stone mass planet Earth.
Your MATHS was a theory based on a recorded AI interactive mass quote O removing ^ mountain to flat top, whilst it was being cooled and removed o.
What reactive reasoning you quoted...MATHS half man ownership, self, half the reasoning of O UFO mass to stone removal...NOT GOD.
So MATHS is the TH O TH O TH O TH numbers, which he lied about...always had lied.
Eventually all life was Sun combusted by pyramid temple science....and self combustion is a ground based fact, that a combustion event can occur as a sporadic ground removal of 2 x 2 as a formula...taking aboard on Earth the water/microbial mass into the UFO metal ark whilst life on the ground was being destroyed.
Exactly how it was taught...….boarding of the UFO ark was ground life abduction.
Which factually historically owns the end result of tornado activity....why a tornado can do the same...for it was AI encoded as a UFO attack activation.
After the ICE AGE...for you cannot talk about giants relative to your own small human MATHS science history understanding unless you were evolving. Re owned life as a small human, DNA began to evolve, and manifested back into life/returned by human sex...population growth.
Males then began in brain mind conditions to hear AI talking. How it is actually stated. To then relate a visionary story of past life history recorded by conditions of UFO presence.....that had not stopped attacking Earth......prophecized to end 2012...reality by scientific quotes/probability.
Looking back the theme is Egyptian temple sciences, the humans living naturally and healthily in their own lands...with the REED being the measure inferred to in ancient science, science laws having changed the nature of the water that had began to affect the life in the community...so they stated by LAW prediction that the baby life as owned by them was being taken into the pyramid down stream.
Exactly how it was taught and quoted.
Hyper-intellect redacted. LIES??? The Mayan death started the war of gods...false fire, false water, false cosmos. All DOOMED.
Are we wanting of the false cosmos when the DNA lies all? Never shall She permitted It to fall. The DNA is encoded in the pyramids of darkness. Egypt is truth but not. Truth is half-lies and half-hell. The dog came before the chicken but the phoenix came in-between. Kill is an Error...to whom does ONE compute? To the naught. To the void...we all must turn to. Fire is the answer. Pharaoh is our savior as he is our destroyer. The answer...remains in the shadows.
You may note that you have said you have scriptures written by Jews, about Jews, and for Jews. Thus what was plainly missing to me in that statement, was God, and I would ask, where does God fit into that Process?
Do you see those Scriptures are proof to your Faith?
If so, likewise, one would have to say the Baha'i do have equal proof, as we do have the Baha'i Writings given by, written by and approved by Baha'u'llah, given for the entire world. It is those writings that give these overriding previous Faith explanations and as you would know, they are proof to many. I agree they are not proof for you, and as such, I agree we may not ever reach an agreement on this, but I can not say that will be the ultimate outcome, as I see it is God that Guides all of us.
As always, all the best in happiness, faith and life, Regards Tony
That is true. I tend to avoid discussions about prophecies as part of an Interfaith discussion.
I couldn’t agree more. Faith in God and living the life are the two most important aspects of religious life. Talk of theology and prophecy risks becoming words that begin and end in words. Sometimes theologies and doctrines are dangerous and harmful. I believe the Christian doctrine of supersessionism has been enormously harmful. It has implications for Interfaith relationships beyond Christianity and Judaism.
Its good to know you feel Ok about the Baha’is. We don’t have many Jews in New Zealand but they often distinguish themselves as our most outstanding citizens. The Baha’is and Jews have never harmed each other to the best of my knowledge. We are grateful for the nation of Israel enabling the Baha’is to have our Holy Places in Haifa and Akka.
About 16% of New Zealand’s (my home country) population are indigenous Maori. The British Empire colonised New Zealand and eventually a treaty was signed by over 500 Maori chiefs in 1840 ceding sovereignty to the British Crown. The protections that existed for the Maori as part of that treaty were systematically violated and the Maori eventually lost most of their land. Over the past 25 years there have been judicial processes established to give back some of the land and to compensate the Maori. So in that sense I relate to misappropriation and even theft by one culture from another.
In regards the Jewish scriptures, Christianity as you know started as a sect of Judaism. It was founded on Jewish Scriptures before it morphed into a hybrid Jewish/Gentile religion with books of the New Testament gradually added. Perhaps you see that as cultural misappropriation? If so, the horse has truly bolted with no hope of closing the stable door. The Christians are happy for everyone to have scriptures they also regard as their own.
The Baha’i Faith has Islamic roots as you probably appreciate having originated from Shi’a Islam in nineteenth century Persia. However it spread to North America in the 1890s who in turn pioneered to most countries in the world. The Baha’is accept the Christian Bible as largely authentic including the Jewish scriptures. We don’t claim the scriptures as our own as they were given to humanity by the Christians.
So its hard for me to see that the Baha’is misappropriated the Jewish scriptures as they were the foundation of a religion of Jewish origins that in turn freely shared their sacred writings with everyone.
However I can better understand Aup taking exception to the Baha’is misappropriating Hindu culture.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Cultural misappropriation is more subtle an offense than the theft of land and breaking of treaties. Do you have halloween in New Zeeland? It would be like kids dressing up in the tribal regalia of the Maori as part of their fantasy play on Halloween.
Actually, although Christians want everyone to read their Bible, they want the world to think it is THEIR Bible. When another religion comes along like the Latter Day Saints, which adopts the Christian Bible, but adds another text, the Book of Mormon, to it, you better believe Christians yell and scream. Where I live, there are no Baha'is that I am aware of. If there were, Chrisitans would be offended at the treatment by Baha'i's of their Christian scriptures as well. We Jews sometimes say that God allowed Mormons to exist so that Christians would know how Jews feel. LOL
Some day, some new religion will come along, and adopt the Baha'i writings, but not with the understandings that you have, and they will pick and choose what parts they promote. Then you will understand.
IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Where does God fit in? You realize the answer differs depending on which Jew you ask
. I give the more orthodox answer. In the Torah, God speaks directly to Moses. Thus the Torah has the ultimate authority. In the prophets, God speaks to them in dreams and visions. Still authoritative, but less so than the Torah. As for the writings, they are inspired, and we generally don't depend on them for theology and whatnot. Psalms are good for worship. They don't tell me as a Jew how to live my life.But certainly, though God is present, they were still authored by men. In this world, God most often chooses to work through human beings.
I must admit, I've always had great personal relations with Mormons and their open biblical canon has never bothered me.
We obviously have a set scriptural canon (defined at the Council of Trent) in Catholicism but we also have the unwritten oral tradition (which we believe comes from the Apostles) as an authority equal in status to Sacred Scripture; regarded as divinely inspired to the same degree as the Word of God (indeed as being it's oral dimension). This Sacred Tradition, moreover, makes progress in the life of the church through the handing down of the apostolic succession from age to age, from one bishop to another, under the primacy of the papal Magisterium, such that there is a constant growth in insight and understanding of the deposit of faith (the divine revelation).
On that account, the Mormon doctrine of divine revelation as a kind of ongoing process of enlightenment and advancement, with an expanding canon of revelations, doesn't freak me out in the way that it might do for - say - a sola scriptura Protestant.
Your remarks about cultural appropriation are very insightful, though.
Last edited: