Suffer, You Little *&*^$%s

[sojourner]

We create prisons and it isn't because of a lack of love

You’ve never been in prison, have you.

 

[sojourner]

And got punished because of that

Consequences — not punishment.

I wonder if Satan is still crawling on its belly, today

Satan does not appear in the creation myths.

Being able to understand good and evil is, well, evil

That isn’t congruent with the theological construct.

whoever wrote that, did not pay attention to logical coherence, I am afraid

Well... it is mythology, not a science text.

I don’t mind you being skeptical; there’s plenty to be skeptical of. But please know what you’re arguing against. Sloppy accusations appear intentionally provocative.

 

[sojourner]

Well, God didn't create hell. Think of it like a garbage can - You throw the trash there and then just forget about it.

...The devil is like the garbage man, he comes and collects the trash once a week. From there, It's nothing nice.

View attachment 24519

So... some human beings are trash and are worthless? It’s ok to throw them away?

 

[viole]

Consequences — not punishment.


Satan does not appear in the creation myths.


That isn’t congruent with the theological construct.


Well... it is mythology, not a science text.

I don’t mind you being skeptical; there’s plenty to be skeptical of. But please know what you’re arguing against. Sloppy accusations appear intentionally provocative.

Well, I cannot possibly be skeptical of mythological claims. On account of their mythological nature. It would be like being skeptical of Excalibur, the Lady fo the Lake, etc.

But I suggest you also know who you are arguing against. Namely the multitudes who do not believe that this is simple mythology.

Ciao

- viole

 

[sojourner]

Well, I cannot possibly be skeptical of mythological claims. On account of their mythological nature. It would be like being skeptical of Excalibur, the Lady fo the Lake, etc.

But I suggest you also know who you are arguing against. Namely the multitudes who do not believe that this is simple mythology.

Ciao

- viole

They’d be wrong. All extant evidence points otherwise.

 

[sojourner]

Well, I cannot possibly be skeptical of mythological claims. On account of their mythological nature. It would be like being skeptical of Excalibur, the Lady fo the Lake, etc.

But I suggest you also know who you are arguing against. Namely the multitudes who do not believe that this is simple mythology.

Ciao

- viole

And you’re right. What I’m suggesting is that it’s the claims, themselves, that merit skepticism.

 

[Cooky]

So... some human beings are trash and are worthless? It’s ok to throw them away?

Luke 13:27

 

[Cooky]

When God says He doesn't "know" you... That means He 'forgets' you.

...In heaven, none of us will have any recollection of anyone in hell. Because we will be just like God.

 

[sojourner]

When God says He doesn't "know" you... That means He 'forgets' you.

...In heaven, none of us will have any recollection of anyone in hell. Because we will be just like God.

That’s cold-hearted and, I think, incongruent with love which, as the Bible points out, is unconditional. It’s slso inconsistent with the meaning of “know.” IOW, it’s not what Jesus means in that passage.

 

[Katzpur]

And got punished because of that. Badly.

Yeah, well Mormons don't see it that way. We see the Fall as as essential component in God's plan, a temporary setback but one that would ultimately result in far greater blessings than hanging around a Garden 24/7 for eternity would.

Apparently, God preferred moral idiots, despite all claims of free will and God wanting us to be not like robots. That is what we get from the narrative. Being able to understand good and evil is, well, evil.

From the traditional Christian perspective, that wouldn't be too far from correct. From the Mormon perspective, the last thing He wanted was moral idiots.

 

[Kenny]

You’ve never been in prison, have you.

I went weekly.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Well, God didn't create hell. Think of it like a garbage can - You throw the trash there and then just forget about it.

...The devil is like the garbage man, he comes and collects the trash once a week. From there, It's nothing nice.

View attachment 24519

Okay. So we have found another thing this god-being did not do, and further, we found a being that god obviously cannot control-- the "devil".

Because we have previously established that god cannot get into hell, and appears powerless to do anything about it anyway, and thus? The devil can easily escape god, by retreating into hell, where he is all powerful?

It seems to me that this version of god keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

Worse! It appears that the devil is the more powerful of the two..!

How do you even know he's god in the first place?

And what is responsible for all these Magical Rules that god seems unable to go against, anyway?

Whatever created THOSE rules? Is clearly the actual god of this narrative....

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I think you have done us a favor. A great example of "I don't care what you say, I'm not going to believe"... a flat-earth syndrome..

LMAO! Ironic, consider you believe in a Bronze Age Book written before anyone understood where the SUN went at night!

A cursory attempt would cause you to believe otherwise.

The Tel Dan Inscription: The First Historical Evidence of King David from the Bible - Biblical Archaeology Society.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...rical-evidence-of-the-king-david-bible-story/

Biased source-- highly biased, in fact. In short? NOTHING they say can be trusted without much more rigorous examination! These people LIE-- because people like YOU keep giving them money..... !

Evidence of Canaanite Jewish Rituals in Reign of King David.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/155579

Again-- biased articles with clear agendas to keep getting money from bible-worshippers.

Discovery of official clay seals support existence of biblical kings David and Solomon, archaeologists say.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2014/12/141216100433.htm

DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOU! It merely SUGGESTS that their MIGHT HAVE BEEN some sort of "government" during that time! NOTHING to support David being real!

Sure-- there MIGHT have been a group of sheep-herders in that time and place. So WHAT?

LMAO!

There is more, of course, but for those who don't want to believe, no effort will be given.
.

No. There is not "more"-- if you HAD actual "more" from NON-BIASED sites?

Well.....

Not to mention the Book of Kings.

LMAO! Oh. My. That is your CLAIM! You cannot use your CLAIM to "prove" your CLAIM.

Oh dear. You keep losing SO BADLY here it's almost sad.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Actually, Hell was created for Satan (the Devil).

We create prisons and it isn't because of a lack of love.

Yeah-- but in the USA? These are not intended to be INFINITE TORTURE.

Are they? No-- any being who created INFINITE TORTURE?

Is Infinitely EVIL. Period.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

You’ve never been in prison, have you.

Well, to be fair, he does live within the prison of his own very-very narrow mind...

And I've been on the receiving end of his thoughts and ideas, and they have nothing of love in them.

 

[Cooky]

Okay. So we have found another thing this god-being did not do, and further, we found a being that god obviously cannot control-- the "devil".

Because we have previously established that god cannot get into hell, and appears powerless to do anything about it anyway, and thus? The devil can easily escape god, by retreating into hell, where he is all powerful?

It seems to me that this version of god keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller.

Worse! It appears that the devil is the more powerful of the two..!

How do you even know he's god in the first place?

And what is responsible for all these Magical Rules that god seems unable to go against, anyway?

Whatever created THOSE rules? Is clearly the actual god of this narrative....

Yes. God not only gives the devil free rein as the Prince of Hell, but he also gives the devil this world to a degree, and has even allowed Jesus Christ his only son and Job to be tempted by the devil here.

...The devil is useful. He is God's garbage man afterall. Once, they were actually close friends.

 

[Kenny]

LMAO! Ironic, consider you believe in a Bronze Age Book written before anyone understood where the SUN went at night!

Biased source-- highly biased, in fact. In short? NOTHING they say can be trusted without much more rigorous examination! These people LIE-- because people like YOU keep giving them money..... !


Again-- biased articles with clear agendas to keep getting money from bible-worshippers.


DOES NOT AGREE WITH YOU! It merely SUGGESTS that their MIGHT HAVE BEEN some sort of "government" during that time! NOTHING to support David being real!

Sure-- there MIGHT have been a group of sheep-herders in that time and place. So WHAT?

LMAO!


No. There is not "more"-- if you HAD actual "more" from NON-BIASED sites?

Well.....


LMAO! Oh. My. That is your CLAIM! You cannot use your CLAIM to "prove" your CLAIM.

Oh dear. You keep losing SO BADLY here it's almost sad.

A live flat-earther for all to see.

 

[Deeje]

Yeah, well Mormons don't see it that way. We see the Fall as as essential component in God's plan, a temporary setback but one that would ultimately result in far greater blessings than hanging around a Garden 24/7 for eternity would.

I am sure that people are well aware that Mormons see things very differently to what "traditional Christianity" teaches......so do JW's. But let's get this straight.....God's command to "fill the earth and subdue it" indicates to you that God intended for the humans to 'hang around a Garden 24/7 for eternity'?....can Mormons completely ignore Genesis? How were humans supposed to "fill the earth" without leaving the garden?

God gave humans only two commands. 'Fill the earth with their kind' and 'don't eat the fruit that belongs to God because if you do, you will die'....both were given before the devil tempted the woman....so how do Mormons come to believe that God gave them incentive to obey one command by expecting them to disobey the other...? Is there somewhere in the Bible that gives us the impression that God ever expects his people to disobey him in anything? I can't find any.

You believe that the fall was all in "God's plan" because he gave them a command.....but never expected them to obey it? He told them to "fill the earth" but they couldn't have sex unless they 'knew evil' and had lust for each other? Where does such an idea even come from? Is normal sexual attraction in humans somehow shameful or 'dirty'? Where do you suppose that idea originated? Wasn't it the Catholic Church that taught that original sin was sex? It never was, but Mormonism seems to want to perpetuate that idea. Can you tell us why?

From the traditional Christian perspective, that wouldn't be too far from correct. From the Mormon perspective, the last thing He wanted was moral idiots.

Oh, so God created "moral idiots"......I'm sure God is flattered by that notion.....he created humans with defects that only disobedience could fix?

How on earth does a religion deviate so far from what the Bible plainly says? They create other scripture that contradicts it apparently.....

No doors to close here.
How can Mormons defend these beliefs without ignoring God's word. Please back up your statements using scripture that is acceptable to "Christians" who are not Mormons. And let's see you do it without resorting to personal attacks....a sure sign that there is no defence.

This is a religious debate forum......let's debate. It's an interesting topic. Please show us how Mormons credibly arrive at this belief.

Over to you.....

 

[sojourner]

I went weekly.

Then you realize that these are not places of love. They’re an oubliette.

 

[Kenny]

Then you realize that these are not places of love. They’re an oubliette.

Correct... but it is love that motivates judges to put them in there... love for the innocent.