Suffer, You Little *&*^$%s

[viole]

Yeah, well Mormons don't see it that way. We see the Fall as as essential component in God's plan, a temporary setback but one that would ultimately result in far greater blessings than hanging around a Garden 24/7 for eternity would.

From the traditional Christian perspective, that wouldn't be too far from correct. From the Mormon perspective, the last thing He wanted was moral idiots.

And why not start with this blessing right away? All this seems unnecessary complicated.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Katzpur]

And why not start with this blessing right away?

It was necessary for Adam and Eve to learn that there are consequences for disobedience.

All this seems unnecessary complicated.

Complicated? I was able to understand it by about age six. I must be awfully smart.

 

[viole]

It was necessary for Adam and Eve to learn that there are consequences for disobedience.

Complicated? I was able to understand it by about age six. I must be awfully smart.

Age six? No doubt. What about afterwards? Just joking, of course.

So, you believe in literal Adam and Eve?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Katzpur]

Age six? No doubt. What about afterwards? Just joking, of course.

So, you believe in literal Adam and Eve?

Let's put it this way... I do not interpret the Bible literally. I do not believe that the Earth was created 6,000 years ago over a period of six days. I don't believe that a man lived for three days in the belly of a whale or that another man somehow managed to round up two penguins and two kangaroos somewhere in the Middle East and put them on board a ship. I don't believe that the world's languages all came into existence overnight after people decided to build a tower reaching into Heaven.

I believe many of the stories in the Bible to be allegorical, but that doesn't mean that I flat out reject the message behind them. I believe that Jesus Christ did, in fact, atone for the sins of mankind and that in order for there to have been a need for a Savior in the first place, there had to be (1) both forces of good and of evil operating in the world, and (2) a fall from innocence by two individuals who had been warned by God not to disobey Him.

 

[viole]

I don't believe that a man lived for three days in the belly of a whale

Last time I ridiculed that, they corrected me. It was not a whale, but a giant fish. Of course, I could have been so stupid? Living in a giant fish is so much more plausible.

But you probably disapproved me for ridiculing people believing in prophets living in giant tunas, right?

I believe many of the stories in the Bible to be allegorical, but that doesn't mean that I flat out reject the message behind them. I believe that Jesus Christ did, in fact, atone for the sins of mankind and that in order for there to have been a need for a Savior in the first place, there had to be (1) both forces of good and of evil operating in the world, and (2) a fall from innocence by two individuals who had been warned by God not to disobey Him.

So, I guess the garden was allegorical, too, then. Which sort of make your adam and eve justification in a previous email sort of difficult ro compute rationally.

By the way, how do you decide what is literal and what allegorical?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Katzpur]

By the way, how do you decide what is literal and what allegorical?

Common sense. And we all know that common sense is subjective.

 

[viole]

Common sense. And we all know that common sense is subjective.

Ergo, that Jesus really atoned for our sins is a subjective conclusion. Right?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Katzpur]

Ergo, that Jesus really atoned for our sins is a subjective conclusion. Right?

Ciao

- viole

Right. It can't be proven.

 

[viole]

Right. It can't be proven.

It can’t be proven?

That is an euphemism. I would say there is no evidence whatsoever that this is true. Or that things like sins requiring atonement even exist.

But since this is subjective, then it might become plausible. Right?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Katzpur]

It can’t be proven?

That is an euphemism. I would say there is no evidence whatsoever that this is true. Or that things like sins requiring atonement even exist.

But since this is subjective, then it might become plausible. Right?

Ciao

- viole

So where shall we go from here, Viole? Around in circles? We're not going to agree on anything concerning Jesus Christ. I'm not sure what it is you want from me, but I have neither the time nor the inclination to rehash any of what I've already stated.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

No, it’s not a later interpolation. In fact, it lies at the heart of Matthew’s message. Sheep/goats, wheat/weeds, us/them. The whole secret of God’s “kin-dom” is that the differences don’t matter; God will do the sorting, we’re not to worry about it. Anyone who does God’s will of building such community is a brother and sister.

I appreciate your civil reply. And it’s very important, you’re right!

However, you didn’t explain the difference between the sheep mentioned here, and Christ’s brothers. These are two separate groups, and both are approved by Jesus.

That’s OK, most don’t know how to apply other related Scriptures that explain this.

I think it’s best for you and I to just ‘agree to disagree,’ as they say.

Peace to you.

 

[syo]

Bunnies, who once lived in peace with wolves, now had to fear them and suffer the likelihood of being eaten alive.

Eve ate the fruit, the rabbits were punished. O tempora O mores.

 

[Cooky]

Eve ate the fruit, the rabbits were punished. O tempora O mores.

They were like: "what the heck".!.?..

 

[Cooky]

Next thing you know, jerks are cutting off their feet!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Next thing you know, jerks are cutting off their feet!

I once ran into a rabbit at a convention. He had only 3 feet. Said his name was "Lucky"...

 

[KingSolomon]

However, as we all know, right off the bat Eve screwed up the whole darn thing.

No. She didn't. As a matter of fact, she did a good deed for us by challenging the status quo. She is a hero, the first Biblical hero who stands up for her humanity.

​

But-*sigh*- god became very vindictive and needy
.

Of course, He did. He's very human, created in our image. How else would we be able to understand Him?

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

No. She didn't. As a matter of fact, she did a good deed for us by challenging the status quo. She is a hero, the first Biblical hero who stands up for her humanity.



Of course, He did. He's very human, created in our image. How else would we be able to understand Him?

I must say, I like your style.

I would also point out? That in the Eden Story? There is only one of the several characters who tells the unvarnished truth-- all the other characters? Lie at one or more points.

Can you guess which one? Yep: The SNAKE is the sole truth-teller in that sorry tale.

Adam lies to god. Eve lies as well. And god lies to both Adam and Eve in the beginning.

Only the Snake states the facts as they are.

 

[Skwim]

No. She didn't. As a matter of fact, she did a good deed for us by challenging the status quo.

So what was the status quo at that time? And what good came from challenging it?

She is a hero, the first Biblical hero who stands up for her humanity.

Just how was her humanity threatened? AND . . .

he·ro
ˈhirō/
noun
noun: hero; plural noun: heroes;
1. a person who is admired or idealized for courage, outstanding achievements, or noble qualities.
​

So what courage did she show, or outstanding achievement did she accomplish, or noble quality did she exhibit?


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