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"Stop looking at these kids as heroes," says vet who made war documentary.

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Father Heathen, Mar 16, 2019.

  1. Landon Caeli

    Landon Caeli What's your stoyle?

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    I’m so glad I never ruined myself by joining the military. Instead, I just ruined myself in other ways.

    ...There are just so many options out there.

     
    #21 Landon Caeli, Mar 17, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2019
  2. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    I think it's possible to maintain effective military readiness without stripping away reason and compassion in lieu of blood lust and blind obedience. What happens in an actual battle is not what needs to happen to maintain readiness. With proper training most soldiers will behave reasonably well even under the intense strain of combat. Some will not, and that, I think, is inevitable. Which is why actual combat should be an absolute last solution, and not a 'tool of political influence'. The more we muddy up the purpose of combat, the more it will go 'awry' when engaged in. And ratcheting up a young, testosterone-driven male's lust for blood and glory in peacetime should be considered a crime, not a military readiness strategy.
     
  3. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    And I thought my posts would be the radical ones...

    He does make some good points, though think most of the psychopathy is more post hoc than pre-existing.

    Neurologically, a million years as hunter-gatherers has wired us for intense, in-group loyalty and altruism. and for out-group competition and aggression.
    To paraphrase Johnathan Haidt, our minds are designed to bind us into teams, and to oppose other teams.

    The military is very skilled at twisting our innate psychology to their own ends.
     
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  4. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    In the US a soldier -- in theory -- has a duty to disobey an illegal order, but is trained not to think about the legality of every order. Anyone actually taking the time to think about obeying the orders he's given would be out of the military so fast he wouldn't know what hit him.
     
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  5. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    Or dead. Say what you will to denigrate these kids that swear an oath to defend this country (be they naive, mislead, or whatever); you have that right mainly because of their real or potential sacrifice. And, yes, war is not pretty and there are atrocities that may or may not have been preventable, but having a strong, effective, and highly visible military force has prevented far more deaths of innocents than it has caused, IMHO.
     
  6. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Not banned yet.
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    We must remember that the military is a collection of
    individuals, the shared culture & training notwithstanding.
    There are both good & bad people in it.
     
  7. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    No, I have that right by 'natural law', as Jefferson put it.
    The military does not defend my freedom. In fact, our military adventurism and its blowback have created something of a military-surveillance state in recent years, and our adulation of all things military has created an aggressive, violent culture.

    Our current military adventurism threatens our safety and prosperity.
     
  8. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

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    Good question. I'm a very different person to who I was before my time in the military. IMHO, I'm "nicer" now, but also harder.
     
  9. Shaul

    Shaul Well-Known Member

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    The military is a necessary institution. It is neither inherently evil nor good. The U.S. military, despite some opinions here to the contrary, is one of the most professional and moral military forces the world has ever seen. Those that have never served should be slow to criticize that which they clearly don’t understand.

    I am proud to have volunteered and served in the U. S. Marine Corps. Yes, it made me a better person. More importantly I am thoroughly convinced the U. S. military helps make it better and safer for America and peace loving people around the world.
     
  10. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    Never said the military gave you that or any right, they are there to make sure no one else takes it from you. Even with all the actual or perceived 'evils' foisted onto our military, I doubt anyone in their right minds would seek to abolish it.
     
  11. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    That is inherently never more than an excuse, though.
     
  12. LuisDantas

    LuisDantas Aura of atheification
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    The military may be necessary, but is inherently designed to be unworthy of much praise.

    And it shows. There is a contradiction in the very idea of a "military hero" when firearms are involved.
     
  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Not banned yet.
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    An excuse for what?
     
  14. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

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    I think it would be an interesting watch for a perspective on experiences that I'll never have.

    I have reverence for the sacrifices that members of the armed services (and reserves) and their families make.

    I don't apply "hero" loosely to those serving in the armed forces. Not every service member does anything worthy of the title.
     
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  15. dawny0826

    dawny0826 Mother Heathen

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    I think that the greatest benefit of our military is what we don't see through surveillance and readiness initiatives.

    Americans who aren't impacted directly by natural disasters, as an example, don't realize how vulnerable and even violent people can become in times of crisis. When infrastructure is compromised, it's not uncommon for the military to be engaged to serve and protect. During Hurricane Harvey relief efforts in Texas, people were transported to shelters in military vehicles as they were best equipped to navigate the flooding. That's one of a plethora of examples as to how the military serves us in less grandiose, but, nonetheless, important ways.
     
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  16. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein ᛘᛁᛏᚾᛁᚴᚼᛏ᛫ᛋᚢᚾ
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    Desmond Doss - Wikipedia

    He tried to help wounded Japanese, too.
     
  17. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    ?
     
  18. Nowhere Man

    Nowhere Man Bompu Zen Man with a little bit of Bushido.

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    Yes every member in my unit. That's evidence enough
     
  19. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity What Does the Fox Say?
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    Its characteristic of a volunteer, paid, standing military group. Plus these are young people, mostly men, who don't understand the value of life yet.
     
  20. Duke_Leto

    Duke_Leto Active Member

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    How am I as an American ‘served’ by the Vietnam War, the Korean War, the Iraq War, or the Afghan War? They don’t serve their country; they serve the interest of the state and the military-industrial complex.
     
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