Space/time is a 2 dimensional membrane that spreads in all directions

[ChristineM]

Number of dimension doesn't matter they both include space/time. In my theory space time is trying to compress them.

You would still live in a physical world of 3 dimension or more that was existing inside the 4th dimension of space/time.

Space is considered flat, even though everything around us is not. Large masses disrupt space causing gravity. Neither of these statements is different whether space/time is something we sit on or some thing we sit in. I would argue that being in space/time like a membrane makes more sense.

The big bang was caused after the collapse of the last universe, once all the energy is gone from the bb the membrane forces tries to force all the matter into one dimension at some point the Multi dimensional energy explodes against the one dimensional force causing the bb again.

I think you are misunderstanding the term space is flat. That does not mean 2 dimensional but that it does not curve in 3 dimensions. It is measured as flat to an accuracy of 5 decimal places* in every direction at vario points on the CMB to a triangle with the 3rd point on earth.

Also energy cannot go because the universe is a closed system, thermodynamics prevents this.

There is also the theory that the total amount of energy (positive energy and negative energy) cancels out to give a total of zero.

And entropy will not allow a cyclic universe. At maximum entropy heat death occurs where each particle of the universe is too far from any other particle to be gravitationally attracted. The particles continue to move away from each other for ever

* It could mean space curves at 6 or more decimal places, that is unknown

 

[bobhikes]

I think you are misunderstanding the term space is flat. That does not mean 2 dimensional but that it does not curve in 3 dimensions. It is measured as flat to an accuracy of 5 decimal places* in every direction at vario points on the CMB to a triangle with the 3rd point on earth.

Also energy cannot go because the universe is a closed system, thermodynamics prevents this.

There is also the theory that the total amount of energy (positive energy and negative energy) cancels out to give a total of zero.

And entropy will not allow a cyclic universe. At maximum entropy heat death occurs where each particle of the universe is too far from any other particle to be gravitationally attracted. The particles continue to move away from each other for ever

* It could mean space curves at 6 or more decimal places, that is unknown

Space would not be completely flat matter would cause the membrane to bend just like the diagrams we see for space time but instead of just a deep hole matter would push up and down against space time spreading the membrane at all points.

The membrane would support the idea that total energy cancels out. It would be the force of the membrane against the matter that creates energy.

Entropy and a cyclic universe, this is where I like my theory better as long as the membrane tries to go back to 2 dimensions it will force the matter to compress eventually causing the explosion again.

Why is it the we can move forward and back in every dimension but time. In time you can only move forward, could it be because it is only 2 dimensional

 

[shmogie]

"...Professor Stephen Hawking's final theory on the origin of the universe, which he worked on in collaboration with Professor Thomas Hertog from KU Leuven, has been published in the Journal of High Energy Physics.

The theory of eternal inflation that Hawking and Hertog put forward is based on string theory: a branch of theoretical physics that attempts to reconcile gravity and general relativity with quantum physics, in part by describing the fundamental constituents of the universe as tiny vibrating strings. Their approach uses the string theory concept of holography, which postulates that the universe is a large and complex hologram: physical reality in certain 3-D spaces can be mathematically reduced to 2-D projections on a surface.

Hawking and Hertog developed a variation of this concept of holography to project out the time dimension in eternal inflation. This enabled them to describe eternal inflation without having to rely on Einstein' theory. In the new theory, eternal inflation is reduced to a timeless state defined on a spatial surface at the beginning of time.

"When we trace the evolution of our universe backwards in time, at some point we arrive at the threshold of eternal inflation, where our familiar notion of time ceases to have any meaning," said Hertog.

Hawking's earlier 'no boundary theory' predicted that if you go back in time to the beginning of the universe, the universe shrinks and closes off like a sphere, but this new theory represents a step away from the earlier work. "Now we're saying that there is a boundary in our past," said Hertog.

Hertog and Hawking used their new theory to derive more reliable predictions about the global structure of the universe. They predicted the universe that emerges from eternal inflation on the past boundary is finite and far simpler than the infinite fractal structure predicted by the old theory of eternal inflation.

Their results, if confirmed by further work, would have far-reaching implications for the multiverse paradigm. "We are not down to a single, unique universe, but our findings imply a significant reduction of the multiverse, to a much smaller range of possible universes," said Hawking.

This makes the theory more predictive and testable.

Hertog now plans to study the implications of the new theory on smaller scales that are within reach of our space telescopes. He believes that primordial gravitational waves – ripples in space-time – generated at the exit from eternal inflation constitute the most promising "smoking gun" to test the model. The expansion of our universe since the beginning means such gravitational waves would have very long wavelengths, outside the range of the current LIGO detectors. But they might be heard by the planned European space-based gravitational wave observatory, LISA, or seen in future experiments measuring the cosmic microwave background...."

Taming the multiverse—Stephen Hawking's final theory about the big bang
by University of Cambridge

https://phys.org/news/2018-05-multiversestephen-hawking-theory-big.html

If the multiverse is testable, by golly where is the data ?

I have read reviews of Hawkings last theory by Cosmologists, not good.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Quick question: if spacetime is 2 dimensional, where are all these are "directions" into which it spreads?

 

[Revoltingest]

Dont forget the circular dimension

You mean where a post's citation cites the post whose citation cites the same post with the citation that.....

 

[Salvador]

If the multiverse is testable, by golly where is the data ?

I have read reviews of Hawkings last theory by Cosmologists, not good.

I understand Hawkings theory can't yet be tested with current technology, but might possibly be tested with near future technology.

"Hawking's no-boundary theory posits that after the Big Bang, the universe went through a burst of rapid expansion called cosmic inflation, amplifying the primordial gravitational waves that emanated from the Big Bang, Hertog said. This ancient echo of the universe's birth is recorded in the faint, cold microwave radiation that permeates every region of our universe, known as cosmic microwave background radiation (CMB). If future satellites show that the energy signal in the CMB data matches the inflation predicted by Hawking's model, it could conceivably provide strong evidence for the existence of a multiverse, Hertog said."

Reference: Stephen Hawking's Last Paper (Probably) Doesn't Prove We Live in a Multiverse

 

[The Anointed]

Everything has always existed in space/time. Space/time is always trying to revert back to 2 dimensions. Everything is always changing because of the force space/time exerts on the multiple dimensions forcing them back in to two dimensions.

Think of a flat balloon place a bomb in the middle of it and set it off. The balloon is not allowed to break and must always revert back to normal. What would happen with the explosion. It would spread out through out the balloon combining in different ways. It would use up all its energy and the matter would eventually collapse back on itself and if the pressure keep up on the matter it would eventually explode again due to the pressure.

This is the cycle that keeps happening with our universe. Nothing was ever created it all existed but in different forms. The energy and force to combine dimensions keeps changing everything and will continue to change everything until the explosive force and reverting force dissipate. The explosive force will eventually stop and the reverting force will eventually pull everything back together and force the explosion again.

A Black hole would be the low spot of the Galaxy where matter is pulled to and condensed to a smallest point.
Gravity would only exist around the biggest objects because the smaller objects would be operating in the dimensional space around the bigger objects.
Potential is caused by the force of 2 dimensions on multiple dimensions.

Thoughts

Are you suggesting that there are not multiple universes, each occupying their own particular positions in Space-Time, but only one universe locked in your hypothetical two dimensional wrap around balloon, which is in a constant state of expansion and shrinking?

This sound like the following article that I found somewhere.

Another universe may have preceded ours, study finds. May 14th, 2006. Courtesy Penn State University and World Science staff.

Three physicists say they have done calculations suggesting that before the birth of our universe, which is expanding, there was an earlier universe that was shrinking. To arrive at their pre-existing universe finding, Ashtekar’s group used loop quantum gravity, a theory that seeks to reconcile General relativity with quantum physics.

These two seemingly fundamental theories are otherwise contradictory in some ways. Loop quantum gravity, which was pioneered at Ashtekar’s institute, proposes that spacetime has a discrete “atomic” structure, as opposed to being a continuous sheet, as Einstein, along with most us, assumed. In loop quantum gravity, space is thought of as woven from one-dimensional “threads.” The continuum picture remains mostly valid as an approximation. But near the Big Bang, this fabric is violently torn so that it’s discrete, or quantum, nature becomes important. One outcome of this is that gravity becomes repulsive instead of attractive, Ashetkar argued; the result is the Big Bounce.

Paul Steinhardt of Princeton University, a cosmologist who has explored some related concepts, wrote in an email that the new research “Supports, in a general way, the idea that the Big Bang need not be the beginning of space and time.” The universe “may have undergone one or more bangs in its past history,” he added. Steinhardt and colleagues have also proposed a bounce of sorts, but it’s different. It could turn out that the two scenarios are equivalent at some deep level, but that’s not known, he added. Steinhardt‘s scenario makes use of string theory, another attempt to reconcile General Relativity with quantum physics. Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions.

.Some versions of string theory portray our visible universe as a three -dimensional space embedded in an invisible space having more dimensions. Our zone, called a braneworld-the word comes from its similarity to a sort of membrane-could periodically bounce into another, parallel braneworld.

Such an event might look to us, stuck in a few dimensions as we are, as a Big Bang. “I don’t know if Ashetkar’s case translates into a bounce between braneworlds like we are describing,” Steinhardt wrote. But by his estimate, this cataclysm won’t take place for another roughly 300 billion years—so there is hopefully plenty of time to answer the question.

Not that I agree with either.

 

[ChristineM]

Space would not be completely flat matter would cause the membrane to bend just like the diagrams we see for space time but instead of just a deep hole matter would push up and down against space time spreading the membrane at all points.

The membrane would support the idea that total energy cancels out. It would be the force of the membrane against the matter that creates energy.

Entropy and a cyclic universe, this is where I like my theory better as long as the membrane tries to go back to 2 dimensions it will force the matter to compress eventually causing the explosion again.

Why is it the we can move forward and back in every dimension but time. In time you can only move forward, could it be because it is only 2 dimensional

I was not talking of local events effected by matter but the entirety of space in our universe. I.e it is inflating (this is the important bit) in all directions.

Assuming it continues to expand the ultimate conclusion is heat death.

As to what (or if) this universe sits on, is contained in, comes from that is unknown. I know of 29 different hypothesis, each different and each being backed up by either scientific theory, mathematics or observation of artifacts in this universe.

The closest i see to your idea is a few hypotheses using string superstring or M theory in which colliding multidimensional membranes form the bb.

 

[ChristineM]

You mean where a post's citation cites the post whose citation cites the same post with the citation that.....

And round and round you go, where you stop nobody knows

 

[bobhikes]

Are you suggesting that there are not multiple universes, each occupying their own particular positions in Space-Time, but only one universe locked in your hypothetical two dimensional wrap around balloon, which is in a constant state of expansion and shrinking?

This sound like the following article that I found somewhere.


Not that I agree with either.

Yes and No. I am saying that we are wrapped in a two dimensional layer in a constant state of expansion and shrinking but I am not saying that there aren't other universe's. Being that it is a two dimensional layer the other universes could be right above or below ours. The point is that everything always exists, there never was a time that nothing existed.

 

[Salvador]

Yes and No. I am saying that we are wrapped in a two dimensional layer in a constant state of expansion and shrinking but I am not saying that there aren't other universe's. Being that it is a two dimensional layer the other universes could be right above or below ours. The point is that everything always exists, there never was a time that nothing existed.

If we were in a hypothetical 2-dimensional layered fluctuating universe, how could this ever be observed, how could this hypothesis be verified or falsified?

 

[bobhikes]

If we were in a hypothetical 2-dimensional layered fluctuating universe, how could this ever be observed, how could this hypothesis be verified or falsified?

Same way the current space/time equations/theories are worked. The space/time is 2 dimensional the universe is multi-dimensional. Things that point to it, Potential, Why does potential exist, what causes potential, Time why does it only go forward, Extra energy in the universe where does it come from. The formula's we currently used can be verified against the theory. If they work then it is possible. Does it resolve some theories?

I am more of a philosopher than a scientist, when it comes to theory I excel when it comes to number's I can use a little help.

 

[The Anointed]

I was not talking of local events effected by matter but the entirety of space in our universe. I.e it is inflating (this is the important bit) in all directions.

Assuming it continues to expand the ultimate conclusion is heat death.

As to what (or if) this universe sits on, is contained in, comes from that is unknown. I know of 29 different hypothesis, each different and each being backed up by either scientific theory, mathematics or observation of artifacts in this universe.

The closest i see to your idea is a few hypotheses using string superstring or M theory in which colliding multidimensional membranes form the bb.

Cosmological theories are formulated by scientists, and theories by definition, are the unproven hypothesis, suppositions, and opinions of those scientists.

There are as many, if not more scientific theories as to the origin of our universe, as there are differing religious bodies, such as Christianity, Hindu, Abrahamic, Muslim, etc.

Here is but one of many theories as to the creation of our three-dimensional universe. This one is by Niayesh Afshordi, an astrophysicist with Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, who proposes that our three-dimensional universe floats as a membrane in a “bulk universe” that has four dimensions and that the “Bulk Universe” has four dimensional stars, which go through the same life cycles as our three-dimensional stars.

The most massive ones explode as supernovae, and their central core collapses into a black hole, like in our universe---only in four-dimension. The four-dimensional black hole has its own four dimensional “Event Horizon,” the boundary between the inside and the outside of a black hole.

In a three-dimensional universe, the event horizon appears to be two dimensional. In a four-dimensional universe, it appears to be three dimensional. The four-dimensional black hole, then blows apart, with the leftover material forming a three-dimensional membrane surrounding a three dimensional event horizon, which expands---and is essentially our universe.

So, according to the theory proposed by Niayesh Afshordi, our universe is the vomited-up guts of a fourth dimensional black hole. The expansion of the event horizon explains our universe's expansion; the fact that its creation stems from another 4D universe explains the weird temperature uniformity.

And don't worry about no Universal heat death, It aint never gonna happen,

Good night, I'm off to bed, it's 9.45, here.

 

[ChristineM]

Cosmological theories are formulated by scientists, and theories by definition, are the unproven hypothesis, suppositions, and opinions of those scientists.

There are as many, if not more scientific theories as to the origin of our universe, as there are differing religious bodies, such as Christianity, Hindu, Abrahamic, Muslim, etc.

Here is but one of many theories as to the creation of our three-dimensional universe. This one is by Niayesh Afshordi, an astrophysicist with Perimeter Institute for Theoretical Physics in Canada, who proposes that our three-dimensional universe floats as a membrane in a “bulk universe” that has four dimensions and that the “Bulk Universe” has four dimensional stars, which go through the same life cycles as our three-dimensional stars.

The most massive ones explode as supernovae, and their central core collapses into a black hole, like in our universe---only in four-dimension. The four-dimensional black hole has its own four dimensional “Event Horizon,” the boundary between the inside and the outside of a black hole.

In a three-dimensional universe, the event horizon appears to be two dimensional. In a four-dimensional universe, it appears to be three dimensional. The four-dimensional black hole, then blows apart, with the leftover material forming a three-dimensional membrane surrounding a three dimensional event horizon, which expands---and is essentially our universe.

So, according to the theory proposed by Niayesh Afshordi, our universe is the vomited-up guts of a fourth dimensional black hole. The expansion of the event horizon explains our universe's expansion; the fact that its creation stems from another 4D universe explains the weird temperature uniformity.

And don't worry about no Universal heat death, It aint never gonna happen,

Good night, I'm off to bed, it's 9.45, here.

I am not sure you know what a scientific theory is
A scientific theory is defined as an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment

A hypothesis on the other hand appears to be what you are describing.

As far as i am aware there are 29 hypothesis of how the universe was formed (not theories because any idea is impossible to test). All are built on either mathematics or/and observed artifacts in our universe, if they can not shown to be valid in some say then they are scrapped.

Christianity alone has over 50,000 sects. I understand there are at least 4200 religions (many fragmented as is christianity). As many hypothesis (not theories)? You must be joking.

Niayesh Afshordi's hypothesis is a hypothesis

I prefer the hypotheses of Laura Mersini-Houghton (also of the perimeter institute), it has the advantage of accounting for 3 previously unexplainable phenomenon observed in our physical universe.

Lee Smolin's {also of the perimeter institute) is also compelling

Entropy only goes in one direction, and if the universe continues to inflate (there it no reason to think otherwise) then heat death is the logical conclusion. Time around 15 trillion years. So given that life is a predicted effect of entropy and that it is only short lived in universal terms then no need to worry, life will be long gone by then.

 

[shmogie]

Same way the current space/time equations/theories are worked. The space/time is 2 dimensional the universe is multi-dimensional. Things that point to it, Potential, Why does potential exist, what causes potential, Time why does it only go forward, Extra energy in the universe where does it come from. The formula's we currently used can be verified against the theory. If they work then it is possible. Does it resolve some theories?

I am more of a philosopher than a scientist, when it comes to theory I excel when it comes to number's I can use a little help.

You excel at theories, but your cosmological ones you have presented have been wrong.

 

[bobhikes]

You excel at theories, but your cosmological ones you have presented have been wrong.

As proven by whom?

 

[shmogie]

As proven by whom?

I do a lot of reading in Cosmology, some of the best in the world.

I have never read any that have espoused any of your theories.

Therefore, since I know their names, education, and careers, I must defer to them over an anonymous person on the internet.

Perhaps I missed something, and if a reputable cosmologist or physicist agrees with you, please give me a citation.

 

[The Anointed]

I am not sure you know what a scientific theory is
A scientific theory is defined as an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment

A hypothesis on the other hand appears to be what you are describing.

As far as i am aware there are 29 hypothesis of how the universe was formed (not theories because any idea is impossible to test). All are built on either mathematics or/and observed artifacts in our universe, if they can not shown to be valid in some say then they are scrapped.

Christianity alone has over 50,000 sects. I understand there are at least 4200 religions (many fragmented as is christianity). As many hypothesis (not theories)? You must be joking.

Niayesh Afshordi's hypothesis is a hypothesis

I prefer the hypotheses of Laura Mersini-Houghton (also of the perimeter institute), it has the advantage of accounting for 3 previously unexplainable phenomenon observed in our physical universe.

Lee Smolin's {also of the perimeter institute) is also compelling

Entropy only goes in one direction, and if the universe continues to inflate (there it no reason to think otherwise) then heat death is the logical conclusion. Time around 15 trillion years. So given that life is a predicted effect of entropy and that it is only short lived in universal terms then no need to worry, life will be long gone by then.

If all the galaxies are moving away from each other in the expanding universe, please explain why our Milky Way Galaxy is on a collision course with the galaxy Andromeda?

And while you're at it please explain what the Great Gatherer/Attractor is?

The Great Attractor: what is this thing?

The smallest unit of galaxies out there is our local group, comprising the Milky Way, the Andromeda galaxy and about 50 others. The Local Group is in turn part of the Virgo Supercluster containing some 40,000 members. Beyond all this is an unseen object called the Great Attractor which is pulling the Milky Way and all else towards it at the terrific speed of 14 million mph. What is this thing, how far away is it, and what will happen when we reach it? No one knows.

Detailed observations of the galaxies around us indicate that there is superposed on the Hubble flow a large-scale streaming motion of about 600 km/s in the general direction of the constellation Centaurus.

This mass migration includes the Local Group, the Virgo Cluster, the Hydra--Centaurus Supercluster, and other groups and clusters for a distance of at least 60 Mpc up and downstream from us. It is as if a great river of galaxies (including our own) is flowing with a swift current of 600 km/s toward Centaurus.

Calculations indicate that ~1016 solar masses concentrated 65 Mpc away in the direction of Centaurus would account for this. This mass concentration has been dubbed the Great Attractor. Detailed investigation of that region of the galaxy cluster Abell 3627) finds 10 times too little visible matter to account for this flow, again implying a dominant gravitational role for unseen or dark matter. Thus, the Great Attractor is certainly there (because we see its gravitational influence), but the major portion of the mass that must be there cannot be seen in our telescopes.

Enoch, the only man recorded in the Scriptures to have been carried to the throne of the Most High in the creation, and who was anointed as his successor, was then escorted to the ends of time, where he witnessed the universe burn up and fall as massive columns of fire, beyond all measure in height and depth into the GREAT ABYSS, which is described by Enoch, as the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven, beyond which, there was nothing, not even the space in which the universe had existed.

In 1935, Einstein and physicist Nathan Rosen used the theory of general relativity to elaborate on the idea of black holes and worm holes, proposing the existence of "bridges" through space-time. These bridges connect two different points in space-time, theoretically creating a shortcut that could reduce travel time and distance; Billions of light years to mere metres.

Could the supposed BB have been a universe that had fallen into a massive black hole and torn to pieces and reconverted to the electromagnetic energy from which it was formed, and accelerated through a worm hole to speeds far, far in excess to the speed of Light and spewed out of a connecting White Hole, beyond the cosmic horizon and resurrected to what it was, to continue on in its eternal evolution?

If this is the case, it would take billion upon billions of years for the light of its old position to reach its new position in Space-Time.

 

[The Anointed]

Continued from post #38.

Christine M wrote...….I am not sure you know what a scientific theory is
A scientific theory is defined as an explanation of an aspect of the natural world that can be repeatedly tested and verified in accordance with the scientific method, using accepted protocols of observation, measurement, and evaluation of results. Where possible, theories are tested under controlled conditions in an experiment

The Anointed...….. O, I know what Cosmological theories are old mate, they are theories formulated by scientists, and theories by definition, are the unproven hypothesis, suppositions, and opinions of those scientists.

And all theories, must remain theories, until they are proven to be factual. Do you know what a 'FACT' is? A fact is not a theory.

 

[ChristineM]

If all the galaxies are moving away from each other in the expanding universe, please explain why our Milky Way Galaxy is on a collision course with the galaxy Andromeda?

And while you're at it please explain what the Great Gatherer/Attractor is?

The Great Attractor: what is this thing?

The smallest unit of galaxies out there is our local group, comprising the Milky Way, the Andromeda galaxy and about 50 others. The Local Group is in turn part of the Virgo Supercluster containing some 40,000 members. Beyond all this is an unseen object called the Great Attractor which is pulling the Milky Way and all else towards it at the terrific speed of 14 million mph. What is this thing, how far away is it, and what will happen when we reach it? No one knows.

Detailed observations of the galaxies around us indicate that there is superposed on the Hubble flow a large-scale streaming motion of about 600 km/s in the general direction of the constellation Centaurus.

This mass migration includes the Local Group, the Virgo Cluster, the Hydra--Centaurus Supercluster, and other groups and clusters for a distance of at least 60 Mpc up and downstream from us. It is as if a great river of galaxies (including our own) is flowing with a swift current of 600 km/s toward Centaurus.

Calculations indicate that ~1016 solar masses concentrated 65 Mpc away in the direction of Centaurus would account for this. This mass concentration has been dubbed the Great Attractor. Detailed investigation of that region of the galaxy cluster Abell 3627) finds 10 times too little visible matter to account for this flow, again implying a dominant gravitational role for unseen or dark matter. Thus, the Great Attractor is certainly there (because we see its gravitational influence), but the major portion of the mass that must be there cannot be seen in our telescopes.

Enoch, the only man recorded in the Scriptures to have been carried to the throne of the Most High in the creation, and who was anointed as his successor, was then escorted to the ends of time, where he witnessed the universe burn up and fall as massive columns of fire, beyond all measure in height and depth into the GREAT ABYSS, which is described by Enoch, as the prison of all the stars and the host of heaven, beyond which, there was nothing, not even the space in which the universe had existed.

In 1935, Einstein and physicist Nathan Rosen used the theory of general relativity to elaborate on the idea of black holes and worm holes, proposing the existence of "bridges" through space-time. These bridges connect two different points in space-time, theoretically creating a shortcut that could reduce travel time and distance; Billions of light years to mere metres.

Could the supposed BB have been a universe that had fallen into a massive black hole and torn to pieces and reconverted to the electromagnetic energy from which it was formed, and accelerated through a worm hole to speeds far, far in excess to the speed of Light and spewed out of a connecting White Hole, beyond the cosmic horizon and resurrected to what it was, to continue on in its eternal evolution?

If this is the case, it would take billion upon billions of years for the light of its old position to reach its new position in Space-Time.

Who said all galaxies are moving away from each other? I am sure you will find that the papers say the trend is inflationary. In some cases galaxies are are close enough for gravity to beat the general trend

I am not at it