Some theists and atheists, not so different after all

[Starlight]

Some theists and atheists, is not so different.

Definition of the word "to believe":

Belief in is not = i know for certain

Belief in is = to hope something is real and to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

Most theists believe in God. They do not know God exist. They only believe God exist.

And some atheists do hope God exist. Whats the difference between believe and hope? Not much after all. Some theists only hope God exist.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Whats the difference between believe and hope? Not much after all.

Wow!

 

[Starlight]

Wow!

explain please

 

[SomeRandom]

I don’t think any atheist hopes god exists. That’s not how definitions work.
I’m all for building bridges. But come on.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Some theists and atheists, is not so different.

Definition of the word "to believe":

Belief in is not = i know for certain

Belief in is = to hope something is real and to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

Most theists believe in God. They do not know God exist. They only believe God exist.

And some atheists do hope God exist. Whats the difference between believe and hope? Not much after all. Some theists only hope God exist.

Well, from dictionary terms, belief is accepting something is true without evidence to support it. I don't hear many believers say they believe god exist in that context because they believe they have evidence. So, belief for them wouldn't be an appropriate word. Though, that's what they say-so I guess the evidence they have isn't strong enough to be knowledge.

Some atheists do but not because they are atheist though. Maybe they just give the benefit of the doubt. But they don't believe or accept something is true they don't believe exists. Which is different than hope-they can hope something is true even if they don't believe it exists (don't accept its existence without evidence to support it).

Eh.

 

[Starlight]

I don’t think any atheist hopes god exists. That’s not how definitions work.
I’m all for building bridges. But come on.

You are wrong. Some atheists do hope God exist.

 

[SomeRandom]

You are wrong. Some atheists do hope God exist.

How would that work, given that atheism is a lack of belief in god in the first place?

 

[Heyo]

Some theists and atheists, is not so different.

Definition of the word "to believe":

Belief in is not = i know for certain

Belief in is = to hope something is real and to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

Most theists believe in God. They do not know God exist. They only believe God exist.

And some atheists do hope God exist. Whats the difference between believe and hope? Not much after all. Some theists only hope God exist.

I don't have problems with theists who believe in god(s) and know what that means. Problems only arise when they think they know or they think their belief gives them privileges.

 

[icehorse]

Whats the difference between believe and hope? Not much after all.

I don't think this idea works equally well in both directions. I imagine that for many theists, their belief is sprinkled with a good dose of hope. But for atheists, I'd say the opposite tends not to be true. Even if an atheists hopes for a god, they don't really believe it.

BTW, from your other thread, as I recall, most of the atheists said something like:

- gods, who cares
- afterlife, cool

So let's not conflate god with afterlife, they're really different ideas.

 

[Windwalker]

Some theists and atheists, is not so different.

Definition of the word "to believe":

Belief in is not = i know for certain

Belief in is = to hope something is real and to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

Most theists believe in God. They do not know God exist. They only believe God exist.

And some atheists do hope God exist. Whats the difference between believe and hope? Not much after all. Some theists only hope God exist.

Belief is either an acceptance or confidence that something is true. Hope is an expectation of something to happen. They aren't the same thing.

 

[Starlight]

How would that work, given that atheism is a lack of belief in god in the first place?

Yes atheism is lack in belief in God. But some atheists do hope God exists even if they do not believe in God.

Belief in is = to hope something is real + to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

To hope = to hope something is real

And some theist also only hope God is real

 

[SomeRandom]

Yes atheism is lack in belief in God. But some atheists do hope God exists even if they do not believe in God.

Belief in is = to hope something is real + to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

To hope = To hope something is real

And some theist also only hope God is real

Which ones specifically?
Like I know the west is a bit more “black and white” when it comes to atheism in general. So I find it hard to fathom how someone who quite literally declares they don’t believe in any god would hope that god exists.
They might hope that a wise enlightened version of a deity exists. But as an exercise akin to daydreaming. Like oh it would be comforting. But they still accept that in reality no such deity exists (for them.)

 

[Starlight]

Belief is either an acceptance or confidence that something is true. Hope is an expectation of something to happen. They aren't the same thing.

The difference between belief and hope is:

Belief in is = to hope something is real + to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

To hope = to hope something is real

 

[McBell]

To hope = to hope something is real

You do understand that trying to use the word "hope" in the definition of the word "hope" does not work, right?

 

[Starlight]

I don't think this idea works equally well in both directions. I imagine that for many theists, their belief is sprinkled with a good dose of hope. But for atheists, I'd say the opposite tends not to be true. Even if an atheists hopes for a god, they don't really believe it.

BTW, from your other thread, as I recall, most of the atheists said something like:

- gods, who cares
- afterlife, cool

So let's not conflate god with afterlife, they're really different ideas.

Some theists only hope God is real. Some atheists hope God is real.

 

[PureX]

Some theists and atheists, is not so different.

Definition of the word "to believe":

Belief in is not = i know for certain

Belief in is = to hope something is real and to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

Most theists believe in God. They do not know God exist. They only believe God exist.

And some atheists do hope God exist. Whats the difference between believe and hope? Not much after all. Some theists only hope God exist.

The difference is that for some theists, AND some atheists, to "believe in" means that they presume to know (rather than to hope) that what they believe to be so, is so. And worse, when they're questioned about this, they will lie and pretend that they don't believe this when they clearly do (especially the atheists). They hide what they believe they know to be so by refusing to take responsibility for proclaiming it to be so.

 

[SigurdReginson]

I like your concept, but I think it's missing an important element. It requires more than hope, but also being convinced of something.

Theists are convinced a god exists; atheists are not.

 

[Windwalker]

The difference between belief and hope is:

Belief in is = to hope something is real + to know something (but not knowing it 100%, or that you can not be certain)

To hope = to hope something is real

You're making this up? I just did a search for the definitions of these words and this is what I found from Webster's Dictionary site:

Definition of belief
1: a state or habit of mind in which trust or confidence is placed in some person or thing
her belief in God
a belief in democracy
I bought the table in the belief that it was an antique.
contrary to popular belief
2: something that is accepted, considered to be true, or held as an opinion : something believed
an individual's religious or political beliefs
especially : a tenet or body of tenets held by a group
the beliefs of the Catholic Church
3: conviction of the truth of some statement or the reality of some being or phenomenon especially when based on examination of evidence
belief in the validity of scientific statements

Definition of hope (Entry 1 of 6)
intransitive verb

1: to cherish a desire with anticipation : to want something to happen or be true
hopes for a promotion
hoping for the best
I hope so.
2archaic : TRUST
transitive verb

1: to desire with expectation of obtainment or fulfillment
I hope she remembers.
hopes to be invited
2: to expect with confidence : TRUST
Your mother is doing well, I hope.
hope against hope
: to hope without any basis for expecting fulfillment
hope noun
Definition of hope (Entry 2 of 6)
1a: desire accompanied by expectation of or belief in fulfillment
came in hopes of seeing you
also : expectation of fulfillment or success
no hope of a cure
when they were young and full of hope
b: someone or something on which hopes are centered
our only hope for victory
c: something desired or hoped for
great hopes for the coming year
2archaic : TRUST, RELIANCE
​

Do you see how hope has to do with exception, or anticipation? Belief doesn't have that element. It has to do with confidence, not expectation. Basically, belief is cognitive, hope is emotional. Big difference.

Can you support your definitions with citations?

 

[Starlight]

I like your concept, but I think it's missing an important element. It requires more than hope, but also being convinced of something.

Theists are convinced a god exists; atheists are not.

Not necessarily. Some people who call themselves theist only hope God exist.

 

[SigurdReginson]

Not necessarily. Some people who call themselves theist only hope God exist.

Hmmm... Well an agnostic theist would suspect god exists, but not know for sure. An agnostic would not take a stand either way, but they could hope a god exists.

What you describe to me sounds more like an agnostic than a theist.