Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Let's work on fixing it rather than shrug as our fellow Amerlcans are either driven into debt or into the grave.Exactly. No sense in giving money to a government that we already know is incapable.
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Let's work on fixing it rather than shrug as our fellow Amerlcans are either driven into debt or into the grave.Exactly. No sense in giving money to a government that we already know is incapable.
Let's work on fixing it rather than shrug as our fellow Amerlcans are either driven into debt or into the grave.
Then, pick a few and tell us about them.It's cute cherry picking third world countries but how about having a look at other developed, 1st world nations?
Bernie's policies would make us basically a social democracy a la Scandinavia. Not exactly dirt poor countries. Better healthcare than us, for example.
Why do people constantly fall for this equivocation between Bernie and Venezuela, or Bernie and the USSR? Are they blind?
"The new deal" was a plethora of tax funded programs thrown at the wall hoping to end the depression. It didn't work, and some economist credit it for a longer depression.The founding fathers lived in a pre-industrial economy based heavily on agriculture, including the slave plantations for sugar, cotton and tobacco. Even with slavery, the early United States was the most egalitarian society of it's day in contrast to the bloated monarchies and aristocracies of Europe. It didn't become more unequal until the late 19th century when the effects of the industrial revolution were felt.
Economic equality, 1774 and beyond
Whilst the concerns about tyranny and individual liberty remain relevant today, particularly in the context of totalitarianism in the 20th century, we still have to take in to account the growth in the power of private industry and banks, both of which the founding fathers were troubled by.
America has been going further and further to the right since the New Deal in the 1930's which tried to address the economic dislocation of the great depression by greater government intervention, which had produced widespread support for communism and fascism elsewhere around the world. In response to those difficult realities, even the Republican candidate for President in 1940, Wendell Willkie, would today be regarded as a far-left extremist.
"The new deal" was a plethora of tax funded programs thrown at the wall hoping to end the depression. It didn't work, and some economist credit it for a longer depression.
What ended the depression was WW2.
It was a case of "something must be done, do something" rather than a coherent policy with specific well thought out goals.
As someone who lived in Venezuela and married a Venezuelan, have friends in Cuba and was in the neighboring countries when the Socialist Sandanistas were in power, I can't help but wonder how people can follow Socialism with Bernie Sanders leading the charge.
Yes, with a more or less regulated capitalism. Many of them have a party that can be identified as social democrats who are in and out off power. Bernie's policies are modeled after those social democrats, not after socialists like Cuba or the USSR. Not seeing that (or seeing and lying about it) results in wrong assessments.They're capitalist countries.
Why do you have an incapable government? Don't you elect yours?Exactly. No sense in giving money to a government that we already know is incapable.
Nope. They see right through your lies.Are people blind?
"The new deal" was a plethora of tax funded programs thrown at the wall hoping to end the depression. It didn't work, and some economist credit it for a longer depression.
What ended the depression was WW2.
The new deal violated some constitutional restraints, was used by FDR as a political tool to buy political influence, and was rife with waste.
It was a case of "something must be done, do something" rather than a coherent policy with specific well thought out goals.
Capitalism is highly regulated in Ameristan too, arguably on par withYes, with a more or less regulated capitalism. Many of them have a party that can be identified as social democrats who are in and out off power. Bernie's policies are modeled after those social democrats, not after socialists like Cuba or the USSR. Not seeing that (or seeing and lying about it) results in wrong assessments.
Fearing Bernie because he's a socialist rests on a false premise. He's a social democrat.
It was an education in communism and not in growing in education. It was an elimination of faith-religion and the promotion of the state religion of communism. Yes, graduated doctors in medicine with no medicine to treat the people. Yes, it was agriculture... but for export while each family had delegated 2 chickens a months (to eat), a few pounds of coffee, and other bare minimal sustenance to get you by while the cows were exported and if you killed one, certain prison time.
Here in the US though we foolishly only tend to think of the money that goes to helping individuals as 'socialism', while ignoring the vast amounts of wealth that is redistributed to corporations as subsidies.
As someone who lived in Venezuela and married a Venezuelan, have friends in Cuba and was in the neighboring countries when the Socialist Sandanistas were in power, I can't help but wonder how people can follow Socialism with Bernie Sanders leading the charge.
I have seen it again and again. They promise utopia, using real-life issues, and it ends up being worse than what they had when they started.
Example: Bernie's "Great education with Cuba -- you can't throw out the good of what he did"... really?
It was an education in communism and not in growing in education. It was an elimination of faith-religion and the promotion of the state religion of communism. Yes, graduated doctors in medicine with no medicine to treat the people. Yes, it was agriculture... but for export while each family had delegated 2 chickens a months (to eat), a few pounds of coffee, and other bare minimal sustenance to get you by while the cows were exported and if you killed one, certain prison time.
BUT THEY DID HAVE HOSPITALS FOR ALL AND EVERYONE WAS EQUAL... equal in poverty unless you were in the upper echelon and medicine shelves were bare.
I still remember in an interview with a Cuban pastor in the US (year ago when it was a rare event) - as he began to perspire profusely when asked questions about Cuba. Why? Because his family was still in Cuba and a wrong statement heard by other Cubans (who might be plants by the government) would mean disaster for their family.
So, what do we have today? What is the carrot on the hook of Socialism?
1) Free university education (as long as you don't mind getting the same pay as one who didn't go)
2) Free medical for all (as long as you don't mind not getting the treatment you want when you want it - IF - there are medicines
3) Everybody gets minimum wages $20/hr - you keep $10/ hour and then the government parcels out your monthly need.
See it happen again and again--and they say it would never happen! That is what THEY ALL PROMISED!
Bernie and the rest of them are no different. They are simply adding some heat to the frog in the water.
Are people blind?
Having spoken to those who live and lived in Cuba... no.Do you think the US embargo on Cuba begun in 1962 may have had something to do with that ?