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Socialism -- a pathway to disaster

Discussion in 'Elections' started by KenS, Feb 26, 2020.

  1. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    better to be the poor servant of a poor jesus than to think otherwise.
     
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  2. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    So they have the money. No need to give them more right?
    So other countries can take care of everyone for the same per capita, where the US can't even take care of the poor. :eek:
     
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  4. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Now folks can understand why single payer won't work in the U.S.
     
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  5. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    The same way they do it in most of the developed world. What is it that you think is so incompetent about the people in the United States that makes us incapable of adopting a system that most other nations have implemented with little difficulty? Currently millions of Americans have access to relatively affordable healthcare. Under universal healthcare everyone will have access to relatively affordable healthcare. How would this be 'destroying' what millions of Americans currently have?
     
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  6. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    Simple answer: it's not about the facts. It's about using propaganda to try to frighten people.
     
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  7. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    The right thinks: poor us. We're just not capable of doing what so many nations can do. It's not our fault. We're just too sensitive about such things and we are so terribly frightened.
     
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  8. QuestioningMind

    QuestioningMind Well-Known Member

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    Are you defining socialism as the socialism practiced in Venezuela or the socialism practiced in Norway? Or the socialism practiced in the United States, for that matter? There isn't a nation on Earth that doesn't redistribute its wealth in some manner. Here in the US though we foolishly only tend to think of the money that goes to helping individuals as 'socialism', while ignoring the vast amounts of wealth that is redistributed to corporations as subsidies.
     
    #28 QuestioningMind, Feb 26, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  9. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
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    Not sure what this means, sorry.

    It's almost as though universal healthcare is more cost effective! :eek:
     
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  10. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    And so too will remain America, so why then all the screeching and squealing?
     
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  11. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Regurgitating right wing propaganda since 2010
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    It's an election year.
     
  12. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Is it because we're not as well developed or advanced as Europe? How embarrassing.
     
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  13. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    It means the US should already have enough money to take care of everyone, other countries do. So no need to increase taxes on anyone. Also, while other countries are taken care of everyone, the US just need to pay for those who can't afford it. IOW the US is using more money and doing less with it

    In other countries. Somehow the US healthcare system is messed up, but it ain't about the dollars and cents.

    So single payer does what exactly? How does single payer fix our broken system? We are not a socialist country, none of these other countries are socialist either. So there no point bringing socialism into the conversation, no point, no point in saying we need to raise taxes.

    We have enough money in our current system of capitalism. How does making people who are otherwise covered by private healthcare change to a single payer system fix anything?

    Or calling it single payer is silly. It's really asking the government to get involved in everyone's healthcare, whether they like it or not.

    Right now I have a choice in health coverage. I can pay for more, pay for less. Not pay anything. How does taking away my choice fix the problem?
     
  14. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Exactly. No sense in giving money to a government that we already know is incapable.
     
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  15. Nakosis

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    Yeah, that too. People keep harping on this single payer as a solution thinking it'll get folks to vote from them. As long as they can get folks to believe that, they don't have to come up with any real solutions.
     
  16. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Regurgitating right wing propaganda since 2010
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    I'm betting it's gonna happen some day.
     
  17. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    Right. Where are we gonna get the money to pay for it?. Are they going to raise my taxes?!:eek:

    In 2006, per-capita spending for health care in Canada was US $3,678; in the U.S. $6,714. Why do those damn socialists think we can afford 40% less? We love paying for health care insurance premiums and deduductibles. I love my insurance company.
     
    #37 joe1776, Feb 26, 2020
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2020
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  18. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    The dead horse is calling universal healthcare "socialism", (except where it works and is preferred over our privatized, predatory racket, apparently?) The U.S. would also remain a capitalist country if it too adopted universal healthcare, so why the hyperbole?
     
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  19. Left Coast

    Left Coast Well-Known Member
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    Not true. Given our aging population, and other factors, healthcare costs are going up regardless of whether we switch to a different insurance system or not. The question is by how much. Universal systems that cover everyone are more cost effective.

    That part is true. Or at least, being much less effective at patient care with it.

    Removes the profit motive from the provision of health insurance, which brings down costs.

    On this I actually agree, I don't care what we call it, it's the policy that matters.

    The point is to fund the program, as explained.

    The government is already involved in your healthcare, hate to break it to you. The question is how.

    Insurance, of all types, is a game of pooling risk. Insurance banks on people who use it less paying premiums to fund the services to those who use it more. The more people in your pool, the more widely dispersed the risk, allowing insurers to charge less. When insurance is universal, this effect is maximized. Single payer additionally removes the profit motive involved in private insurance which artificially inflates its cost as well.
     
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  20. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    You already pay more in inflated premiums and copays than what you would in taxes. We can also stand to divert some of the funding that goes into our bloated military budget. Legalizing cannabis and taxing it would also help cover costs.
     
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