1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Socialism -- a pathway to disaster

Discussion in 'Elections' started by KenS, Feb 26, 2020.

  1. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2014
    Messages:
    9,033
    Ratings:
    +1,874
    Religion:
    Christian



    Tell that to literally all of Europe.[/QUOTE]
     
  2. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,007
    Ratings:
    +7,230
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Many of the former communist regimes evolved peacefully of their own accord, not through any violent counter revolution or civil war. In any case, none of them proved to be any kind of dangerous "threat" the US government was painting them as.
     
  3. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    24,448
    Ratings:
    +11,582
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    No government is going to magically transform a poor country into a rich one. Pre revolution, government existed to keep the peasants in line and the country's wealth flowing to foreign overlords and a tiny elite.

    The revolutions endeavored to cut the workers and peasants -- who actually produce the wealth -- in on part of the profit, rather than funneling it to the overseers and foreign interests. This, however, provoked a massive retaliation.
    That's when the US corporate interests decided this would never do, and tried to overthrow the new leadership and take back control.
    In Nicaragua they largely succeeded, even if only to ruin the economy as punishment. In Cuba they eventually drove the country into the hands of the Soviets. In both cases they stymied attempts to realize the original goals of the revolutions.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    24,448
    Ratings:
    +11,582
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    [/QUOTE]
    Could you reformat your post, SVP?
     
  5. Left Coast

    Left Coast Plant-Based Plebeian
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2019
    Messages:
    3,813
    Ratings:
    +4,871
    Religion:
    Buddhish
    Did you actually watch that entire interview? Sanders was incredibly thoughtful and nuanced in his analysis of the situation and his reasoning for opposing Reagan's policies in Nicaragua. He was also careful to distinguish between authoritarian communism and genuine democracy.
     
  6. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    10,716
    Ratings:
    +3,098
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    Many? Such as?
     
  7. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    10,716
    Ratings:
    +3,098
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    Interesting take.... but it isn't what the Cubans were saying who actually lived through it.

    As I visited and ministered to the Nicaraguan refugees in Honduras, they wouldn't agree with you. Especially those who lost their babies as they slit the belly of their pregnant wives.
     
  8. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    10,716
    Ratings:
    +3,098
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    Since I actually talked to the Nicaraguans who fled the country by night and lost family along the way--I find Bernie's point of view mute.
     
  9. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,007
    Ratings:
    +7,230
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Well, the USSR and Eastern Europe, for one (except Romania). China has reformed from the days when Mao ruled that country. Even Vietnam and Cuba have mellowed out considerably. They're not what they once were.
     
  10. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    25,046
    Ratings:
    +19,403
    Religion:
    None

    Yet here you lord socialism, is it because is related to a church?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    10,716
    Ratings:
    +3,098
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    Since my wife is Venezuelan and I still have family in Venezuela.... "Cuba has mellowed out" seems quite odd.

    China reformed into what?

    Opinion | China’s Gulag for Muslims
     
  12. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    10,716
    Ratings:
    +3,098
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    :facepalm::shrug:
     
  13. Laika

    Laika Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2015
    Messages:
    7,844
    Ratings:
    +8,147
    Given that is your experience of socialism I can understand how you would reach such a strong opposing view. I can respect that. :)
     
  14. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    25,046
    Ratings:
    +19,403
    Religion:
    None
    So you think free free healthcare is not a socialist idea? Ok
     
  15. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    10,716
    Ratings:
    +3,098
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    Thank you. Since it is the status quo, I tend to believe that is the ultimate destination as we slowly cook the frog.

    Pilgrims saw the folly:

    The Pilgrims’ Governor, William Bradford, described the folly of embracing the theory of collectivism:

    “The experience that was had in this common course and condition, tried sundry years and that amongst godly and sober men, may well evince the vanity of that conceit of Plato’s and other ancients applauded by some of later times; that the taking away of property and bringing in community into a commonwealth would make them happy and flourishing; as if they were wiser than God.

    “For this community was found to breed much confusion and discontent and retard much employment that would have been to their benefit and comfort. For the young men, that were most able and fit for labor and service, did repine that they should spend their time and strength to work for other men’s wives and children without any recompense. The strong had no more in division of victuals and clothes than he that was weak and not able to do a quarter the other could; this was thought injustice. The aged and graver men to be ranked and equalized in labors everything else, thought it some indignity and disrespect unto them. And for men's wives to be commanded to do service for other men, as dressing their meat, washing their clothes, etc., they deemed it a kind of slavery, neither could many husbands well brook it.”

    Socialism didn't work then and it won't work now. But, since we tend to forget history, we just repeat it again.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    10,716
    Ratings:
    +3,098
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    Who said I believe in a completely "free free healthcare"? Please quote where I said that.
     
  17. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    14,007
    Ratings:
    +7,230
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    Well, you have to admit, they're no longer the brazen revolutionaries they once were when Castro first took power. It used to be that one couldn't travel to Cuba, but now it's possible. There's been a thaw in relations between Cuba and the U.S.

    Capitalists.
     
  18. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2017
    Messages:
    25,046
    Ratings:
    +19,403
    Religion:
    None
    Did i say, completely? No but you qualification is telling...


    45,000 medical bills ERASED!

    You are throwing congratulations around like candy in the above link because 45000 people were given free healthcare... By a church.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. atanu

    atanu Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 9, 2010
    Messages:
    14,686
    Ratings:
    +3,371
    Religion:
    Hindu Sanatana Dharma
    We all are ego-s that have some or other form of motivation and motivations differ. The primary motivation of a socialist will not be greed but its opposite, IMO.
     
  20. KenS

    KenS Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2013
    Messages:
    10,716
    Ratings:
    +3,098
    Religion:
    Judeo/Christian
    Yes... there are always good hearted people.

    But notice the dichotomy:

    Socialists are not motivated by greed - yet they want to take from other people.
    Capitalists are motivated by greed - yet they help get products to people, employ and sustain people.

    WAAAAIT A MINUTE :screamcat:: Don't get me wrong.

    There are capitalists who are motivated by greed... but to say socialists are not? Tell that to socialists Maduros and Castros of this world who have offshore accounts.

    What about personal responsibility?
     
Loading...