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Featured So, What Happened, Jesus?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Skwim, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    The ERV, the 'Easy to read" version.... really?

    Mathew 16:28 Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom and they did "see" it in witnessing his resurrection and ascension before they died

    Some others lived long enough to seeing the temple destroyed in 70 AD such as the apostle John

    Many prophesies have an immediate fulfillment and a later and the Olivet discourse screams an immediate and a later fulfillment... the walls of the temple wall first... someday the stars fall... but the real sign of the coming of the Son of man is the gospel is preached to all nations
     
    #101 whirlingmerc, Apr 11, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  2. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    No point in continuing the conversation if that's where your going.

    Toodles
     
    #102 Enoch07, Apr 11, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  3. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Where is this fact recorded and substantiated?

    .
     
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  4. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    Yes, and bodies came out of the graves and walked the streets of Jerusalem, there were witnesses: Matthew 27:53 ...and they appeared unto many.
     
    #104 lukethethird, Apr 11, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  5. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    All nations in their world?
     
  6. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    There was no objection from the people living at the time who could have said 'never happened'

    There was a debate as to why it happened, one claiming it was an eclipse, the other saying it was too long and during a full moon

    see Africanus on Thallus
    quote
    On the whole world there pressed a most fearful darkness; and the rocks were rent by an earthquake, and many places in Judea and other districts were thrown down. This darkness Thallus in the third book of his History, calls, as appears to me without reason, an eclipse of the sun. For the Hebrews celebrate the Passover on the 14th day according to the moon, and the passion of our Saviour falls on the day before the Passover; but an eclipse of the sun takes place only when the moon comes under the sun. And it cannot happen at any other time but in the interval between the first day of the new moon and the last of the old, that is, at their junction: how then should an eclipse be supposed to happen when the moon is almost diametrically opposite the sun? Let that opinion pass however; let it carry the majority with it; and let this portent of the world be deemed an eclipse of the sun, like others a portent only to the eye. Phlegon records that, in the time of Tiberius Caesar, at full moon, there was a full eclipse of the sun from the sixth hour to the ninth—manifestly that one of which we speak. But what has an eclipse in common with an earthquake, the rending of rocks, and the resurrection of the dead, and so great a perturbation throughout the universe? Surely no such event as this is recorded for a long period. But it was a darkness induced by God, because the Lord happened then to suffer.

    Africanus, who cites Thallus on other matters as well, is exercised to expose as erroneous Thallus’ explaining the darkness as due to a solar eclipse. He points out that such an explanation is unreasonable because Passover always occurs at the time of the full moon, and the full moon cannot come between the earth and the sun. So the explanation, according to Africanus, must be that the darkness was miraculous.
    unquote
    written by William Lain Craig of reasonable faith
    Thallus on the Darkness at Noon | Reasonable Faith
     
  7. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    This fact is recorded in Luke 23:44 and substantiated by millions of copies sold or given away.
     
  8. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    You haven't read the gospels, then?
     
  9. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    does it matter?

    but there are some prophesies mentioning something happening in the day and others in the night which is possible on different parts of the world
     
  10. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    What difference does that make? That wasn't directed at me but just sayin.
     
  11. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah 53: The Suffering Servant - aish.com
    www.aish.comHomeSpiritualityPhilosophy
    While the original Hebrew text clearly refers to the Jewish people as the “Suffering Servant,” over the centuries Isaiah 53 has become a cornerstone of the Christian claim that Jesus is the Messiah. Unfortunately, this claim is based on widespread mistranslations and distortion of context.
     
  12. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    I think its a mi stake to torture scripture and change the words.

    This should help.

    Isaiah 53: The Suffering Servant
     
  13. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    A miraculous prophecy of zombie movies?
     
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  14. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it does help.

    Jesus death and resurrection would be strong evidence
    that what he said about his return is true

    Acts 2:36
    Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.”
     
  15. lukethethird

    lukethethird Active Member

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    It appears so.
     
  16. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    Isaiah is old testament.. Did you read the link I provided?
     
  17. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    Yes.

    I love both the Old and New Testaments

    so great!

    I don't agree with the view in your link.
    In that view Israel has no sin problem and no need of a savior
    it just needs a sympathetic king who rewards them for their works

    rather Jer 23 points to the work of a person and the righteousness of God

    5“Behold, the days are coming, declares the LORD, when I will raise up for David a righteous Branch, and he shall reign as king and deal wisely, and shall execute justice and righteousness in the land. 6In his days Judah will be saved, and Israel will dwell securely. And this is the name by which he will be called: ‘The LORD is our righteousness.’

    There it is again... the righteous branch of David... like Isaiah where the nations put their hope in the son of Jesse
     
    #117 whirlingmerc, Apr 11, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2019
  18. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    If you read the gospels, you might wonder why there are four different Jesuses (and Paul's makes five), for a start. Mark's, for example, is an ordinary Jewish citizen who needs to have his sins washed away by JtB, and only at that point becomes son of God, specifically in the same manner that David became son of God in Psalm 2:7 (Mark 1:10-11, Acts 13:33). No annunciation (Mark 3:21), no divine insemination, no star, no magi, no massacre of the innocents, no flight into Egypt, and so on. Yet Mark's is the only biography there is, copied with variations by the others, and it's written by preparing a list of what someone thought were messianic prophecies in the Tanakh and moving Jesus through the scenes. There may be little hints of a real person in there ─ 'physician, heal thyself', 'a prophet is not without honor except', and Jesus' all but unrelenting contempt every time he mentions his mother. Who knows?

    Or outside the gospels, maybe, as Paul says, Jesus did have a blood brother called James; or maybe Paul was using that expression for a fellow-follower of Jesus. There's no clincher for an historical Jesus, and there's no clincher for no historical Jesus.
     
  19. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Sure, but it's far removed from the OP. Go start another thread.
     
  20. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    Well, that subject's pretty exhausted. Three gospels have him making unqualified promises he'd be back in the lifetime of some of his hearers, and that didn't happen. Not in the story, not in history.

    What else is there to say?
     
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