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Featured So, What Happened, Jesus?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Skwim, Apr 10, 2019.

  1. MJ Bailey

    MJ Bailey Member

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    Excuse me, yes during solar eclipses the sun does become dark, and the moon only gives light from one side; as far as stars go, are you sure it is a star and not a planet? I have not lived my life trying to see if anything changed in the sky above my head, but have seen change. Who is "everyone" and what does sky mean to "everyone"? ?
     
  2. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member
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    genea as was used in Koine Greek can also mean people with familial ties, past, present, and future ( Thayers Greek lexicon) so the genea He was speaking to have not passed away.
     
  3. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
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    If I understand correctly, the Bible, for whatever unknown reason, is assigning 40 years as the duration of a generation. When a generation is then mentioned, it is referencing that duration of 40 years as the context.

    As you point out, a generation is now understood and recognized as 20 years based the evidence of human developmental timing. I am unclear why the authors chose that time length as the duration of a generation, but they did. It may be internally consistent, but it is not externally consistent.
     
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  4. Dan From Smithville

    Dan From Smithville Well-Known Member
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    During an eclipse, the sun is still shining, but the moon is between the earth and the sun, blocking the light. An eclipse only occurs over a small area or region of the Earth. The sun is still shining everywhere else on the planet where it is daylight and the moon is not eclipsing it.
     
  5. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    But hardly all over the Earth. In fact, a total solar eclipse will cover far less than 1% of the Earth's surface, so I fail to see your point here. That Jesus may have predicted a total solar eclipse would occur sometime, somewhere on Earth doesn't mean much.

    So what???

    Am I sure what is a star and not a planet? And what is the relevance?

    .
     
  6. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    Is that right? My experience, in regard to interpreting the Bible, is that accusations of cynicism against me generally come from professed Christians who have spent considerably less time (if any at all) studying the Bible than I have. Anyways, I leave it to you to re-read your Bible (in whichever translations you prefer) with an open mind and see whether my "cynical" suggestions make any more sense after that.
     
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  7. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

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    Other than wanting to, why would you believe the writer of 1Peter? Obviously the writer wasn't with Jesus all the time, so Jesus had plenty of opportunity to sin and lie without being discovered. Nope, bald-faced pronouncements like this need more than mere assertion to be believed.

    But hey, if they make you feel good . . . . . . . . . . . :thumbsup:

    .
     
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  8. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    Yes, well the plain truth is usually not nearly as exciting as what people hoped for...

    And I have told the plain truth twice now in this thread, without exaggeration and without being insulting. Still, if you feel a strong need to throw around words like "lame," well, who am I to deny you...
     
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  9. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    No, your trying to tell me what I am thinking, which your wrong about, then explain to me my thought process, which your also wrong about, then trying to swerve me into accepting your wrong idea. It's a weak attempt at manipulation is what it is. Dunno know why you try this routinely as if anyone would fall for such a boring uninspired tactic.
     
  10. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    And when the claim is made that someone is a prophet, what test tells us whether that claim is correct or not?
     
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  11. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    Whether they was born before or after Jesus.

    If they was born after Jesus and claim to be a prophet. They are a false prophet. Plain and simple. Jesus was the final prophet
     
  12. blü 2

    blü 2 Well-Known Member
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    What test tells us that Jesus was a prophet?

    (Leaving aside the question whether there was an historical Jesus at all.)
     
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  13. siti

    siti Well-Known Member

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    That's right - and so is this
    20 years from one generation to the next - but the Israelites wandered in the wilderness for 40 years whilst "that generation" - the adults who were responsible for their faithless griping and complaining attitude - died off. That would indicate that the "generation" referred to in that account would be the "over-twenties" and most of them would indeed have died within that 40 year period. So maybe that is exactly what "Jesus" meant - that the adults who had rejected him would see the destruction of the temple etc. within 40 years from his pronouncement - and of course that really did happen in 70CE - about 30-something years after Jesus was supposed to have said it. And then the sun darkened on the lifetime of that generation...and there was bugger all they could do about any of it any more. So the only question is whether it was really written before it happened - well there is no evidence for that as far as I know. All the available evidence points to his words having been made up after that "generation" had already vanished from the scene.
     
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  14. MJFlores

    MJFlores Well-Known Member

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    Is that it?
     
  15. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    Did none of those, so it's hard to understand why you are reacting as if your back is up.

    There is nothing, absolutely nothing, in the text in Matthew 24 that even remotely suggests "for fig tree, interpret Israel, for growing leaves, interpret regaining sovereignty." Yet you claimed that to be what it was about, and since it is not in the text, you "read it in." That's eisegesis.

    And that is all that I said. If you think I'm wrong, show me how. Explanations and dialogue are always better than simply saying "you're wrong, so there, nyah, nyah." And if you can show me how I'm wrong about the one thing I spoke to, I will certainly reconsider. If you'd rather not, then feel free to express contempt again, if it makes you feel better.
     
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  16. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    There is the manipulation again. This started by you challenging me saying I was wrong. Then proceeded with trying to build a strawman which I called you out on. Now your back to manipulating the conversation trying to get me to prove you wrong. I don't have to prove you wrong. You can believe whatever you want. Just don't try forcing it on me.
     
  17. Evangelicalhumanist

    Evangelicalhumanist "Truth" isn't a thing...

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    Fine, I accept that you will not try to show that the single thing that I called you on, I was incorrect about. I stand by the arguments I made, you stand by claiming I'm wrong without bothering to present any argument of your own. I am not trying to force anything on you but thinking...and I've discovered a lot of believers are uncomfortable with that.
     
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  18. Enoch07

    Enoch07 It's all a sick freaking joke.
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    You gave an opinion about why you thought I was wrong. I disagree, and well that's ahould be the end of the story. You should have let it go after that.

    This is my point. You're trying to force me into your line of thinking vs encouraging free thought. Subtle difference most wouldn't notice, but I see it for what it is. I didn't come to my conclusion because I followed someone else line of thought. I studied and researched and came to my own conclusions. If you agree fine, if not that's fine too. But to accuse people of not thinking and then try forcing people into your own line of thinking is unscrupulous at its best.
     
  19. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    The sun was in fact dark 3 hours as Jesus died and considerably longer than an eclipse

    When he returns the sun will not need to shine because he will be doing the shining.
     
  20. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    He chose the ERV easy to read version... it made simplifying word choices to simplify the reading but as you say generations is more precise and most translations go that route.
    There are a variety of views but he picked the ERV not for accuracy as it is not the most accurate but made phrases simple as possible to read possibly at the cost of precision
    Not a translation I would put a great deal of exegetical weight in

    A first time read or a simple read for someone with trouble reading maybe ok and then move on to something more substantial later if possible
     
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