Excellent point, excellent question.
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So I just started reading The God Delusion..
- Thread starter zack
- Start date
Excellent point, excellent question.
Kia, I did write a book trying to address this issue. I didn't know of any other way to get my thoughts out there in a way that doesn't push them on anyone. I address these issues in the book and feel more comfortable with that because people are not forced to read it. However, it is very evident that many people are afraid to even read these types of books. I find in book signings that when people read the back cover of the book, some get a look of panic on their face, drop the book and walk away as fast as they can, avoiding all eye contact with me. It really challenges them like they are afraid their faith will weaken if challenged.
When I talk to people I try to do so in a way that is questioning rather than this is the way it is. I find is works to listen more and talk less. When I address groups I try to instill a sense of urgency when re-evaluating our beliefs and yet not be too negative about the state of our world. It's a fine line to walk. I find it easier to come at it from their point of view. I try to raise awareness but also try not to undermine their beliefs too much either. Educating more than criticizing and exercising a lot of respect. I try to be as nonconfrontational as possible and still get the point across that we need to look at our religious beliefs and understand that they are different from other religious beliefs and therefore we cannot be 100% sure they are the "right" beliefs. Then I point out that everyone wants the right to worship in their way without outside interference. That right should also be granted to secular groups. Religions do not have the right to dictate what other religions believe nor do they have the right to dictate their religious beliefs on those who do not have a religion. Obviously there is a lot more to these talks and discussions, but that is the gist of what I try to get across. Mostly tolerance but not acceptance of any beliefs that would harm or minimalize any group or individual. Not an easy task, but I am surprised at how many people are open to hearing it and agree.
One thing I found sad was of all the book stores I have my books in the only one that is concerned is a Christian book store. It took them months to decide whether or not to take them because they were afraid their staff would have to take abuse for carrying them in their store. They did finally take them but I had to talk to staff about how to handle abusive customers. No other secular bookstore had this issue. What is wrong with that picture!
I do believe we need to speak up, but in a loving and compassionate manner allowing people to keep their source of comfort but at the same time recognizing the need for them to allow others their source of comfort also. I don't think it prudent in a world where we can destroy ourselves, that we are fighting over whose beliefs are right. I would like to see a world where we are allowed our beliefs as long as they do not infringe on the rights of others with different beliefs and as long as they do not harm members within their belief circle.
When I talk to people I try to do so in a way that is questioning rather than this is the way it is. I find is works to listen more and talk less. When I address groups I try to instill a sense of urgency when re-evaluating our beliefs and yet not be too negative about the state of our world. It's a fine line to walk. I find it easier to come at it from their point of view. I try to raise awareness but also try not to undermine their beliefs too much either. Educating more than criticizing and exercising a lot of respect. I try to be as nonconfrontational as possible and still get the point across that we need to look at our religious beliefs and understand that they are different from other religious beliefs and therefore we cannot be 100% sure they are the "right" beliefs. Then I point out that everyone wants the right to worship in their way without outside interference. That right should also be granted to secular groups. Religions do not have the right to dictate what other religions believe nor do they have the right to dictate their religious beliefs on those who do not have a religion. Obviously there is a lot more to these talks and discussions, but that is the gist of what I try to get across. Mostly tolerance but not acceptance of any beliefs that would harm or minimalize any group or individual. Not an easy task, but I am surprised at how many people are open to hearing it and agree.
One thing I found sad was of all the book stores I have my books in the only one that is concerned is a Christian book store. It took them months to decide whether or not to take them because they were afraid their staff would have to take abuse for carrying them in their store. They did finally take them but I had to talk to staff about how to handle abusive customers. No other secular bookstore had this issue. What is wrong with that picture!
I do believe we need to speak up, but in a loving and compassionate manner allowing people to keep their source of comfort but at the same time recognizing the need for them to allow others their source of comfort also. I don't think it prudent in a world where we can destroy ourselves, that we are fighting over whose beliefs are right. I would like to see a world where we are allowed our beliefs as long as they do not infringe on the rights of others with different beliefs and as long as they do not harm members within their belief circle.
I just started reading "The Dawkins Delusion: Athiest Fundamentalism and Denial of the Divine". It seems to be a response to Dawkins "The God Delusion". Should be interesting. I'm getting the feeling there are a few athiests that think Dawkins has gone too far. Has he? What do you think? I would like responses from athiests about this, not people of religion if that's okay. Thanks.
Apex
Somewhere Around Nothing
Thanks Apex, I'll read it too. Looks like I have alot of reading to do... I always like to understand both sides of things. Seldom are things black and white.
That was an interesting article. I don't know how much luck they will have trying to explain why religion is a good thing for survival, but at least they are trying to explain how we might have become so attached to it. That is something I would like to understand more fully!
Now I'll finish the book The Dawkins Delusion.
Now I'll finish the book The Dawkins Delusion.
I don't think Dawkins has gone too far. I don't agree with everything he says, but to suggest he's gone to far is a bit of a stretch -- even where I believe him to be wrong, he must be credited with providing logical reasons and evidence for his position.
For the most part I agree with you. Did you read that article that is posted by Apex? It is a rebuttal of sorts of Dawkins book by a fellow scientist and athiest. It's interesting because of some of the things he points out. Mostly he thinks Dawkins isn't being honest from a scientists point of view. At least that was what I got from it. He does agree with Dawkins though, that religion is a problem and he concurs with his concerns, just doesn't agree there is no scientific reason why religion emerged and evolved with humans.
Luminous
non-existential luminary
That book sounds like a bigger load of fertilizer than Dawkins. message me how it goes (what is argument and evidences and logics)
So you agree with Wilson? That Dawkins is biased?
Okay, I've just started to read it. I think it will go somewhat along the same theme as Wilson though. The book is written by two people who have studied the sciences but have also got degrees in theology. The introduction did address some of the things Wilson said in the article already. Don't know, we'll see..
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Maybe but no more than the claim that he existed.....right???
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Wrong. With all the history, the centuries of belief, I don't consider that an extraordinary claim at all. It's not proven, either, of course.
Dirty Penguin
Master Of Ceremony
Well belief I pay no attention to "believers" but you may have to enlighten me "with all the history"...So far there's the NT (All written after the death of the supposed Yeshua and still some debate as to who wrote them) as well as some other people in history...again, all after the death of the supposed Yeshua.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
I said history, not historical records. A reference to the fact that it was unquestioned for roughly 2000 years.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
I'm not sure that gives it any credibility, though. Ancient mythologies were believed unquestioned for many centuries. I don't think the claim that Jesus didn't exist is very exraordinary, and certainly no more so than the claim that he did exist.
Magic Man
Reaper of Conversation
I guess I don't know what you mean then. Something being taken as a given doesn't give it any kind of credibility at all. I don't think that makes saying the opposite an extraordinary claim.