Slavery was a choice

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

So this is a straw man argument for racism?

I don't think ''straw man' means what you think it means.

Straw man - Wikipedia

 

[Spiderman]

Yeah, that's my main problem with leftist 'thinking' actually. You highlighted it quite well.

Feelings before facts right?

yeah I find it quite interesting that she accuses us of a straw man, while at the same time she does nothing to refute the claims.

We actually produced facts.

She didn't produce anything factual or reasonable.

Really ironic that she would produce an obvious strawman, then accuse us of a strawman

 

[sandy whitelinger]

That wasn't all I said. I pointed out to you many obvious facts that you refused to refute, so it is indeed you that have presented a straw man!

Have a nice day!

The sun comes up in the east which helps the situation as much as your facts. Refute that or run out of straw men and run away. Yet racism lives in vapid statements such as yours.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I don't think ''straw man' means what you think it means.

Straw man - Wikipedia

You set up a situation of saying that person is better off here than his ancestors homeland. That is irrelevant to how that person is treated today. Call it whatever you want.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Yeah, that's my main problem with leftist 'thinking' actually. You highlighted it quite well.

Feelings before facts right?

And that your fact is irrelevant to the fact of the mistreatment of other humans based on skin color is irrelevant?

 

[Spiderman]

The sun comes up in the east which helps the situation as much as your facts. Refute that or run out of straw men and run away. Yet racism lives in vapid statements such as yours.

Pointing out that I have witnessed personally, in the environments that I lived, that the poor, the unemployed, and disenfranchised and homeless are treated a lot better in America than Africa, is not a racist statement or conclusion. It's just obvious for anyone who knows about the poverty, famine, war, slavery, intolerant regimes, tribal conflict, and scarcity of running water and food, in Africa.

 

[Stevicus]

Please quote me where I actually made a racist comment

It may not have been intentional, but not every form of racism necessarily involved hatred, greed, or murder. There was also the White Man's Burden variety (The White Man's Burden - Wikipedia):

The imperialist interpretation of "The White Man's Burden" (1899) proposes that the white man has a moral obligation to rule the non-white peoples of the Earth, whilst encouraging their economic, cultural, and social progress through colonialism.[16]

In the later 20th century, in the context of decolonisation and the Developing World, the phrase "the white man's burden" was emblematic of the "well-intentioned" aspects of Western colonialism and "Eurocentrism".[17] The poem's imperialist interpretation also includes the milder, philanthropic colonialism of the missionaries:

The implication, of course, was that the Empire existed not for the benefit — economic or strategic or otherwise — of Britain, itself, but in order that primitive peoples, incapable of self-government, could, with British guidance, eventually become civilized (and Christianized).[18]

The poem positively represents colonialism as the moral burden of the white race, which is divinely destined to civilise the brutish and barbarous parts of the world; to wit, the Filipino people are "new-caught, sullen peoples, half-devil and half-child". Although imperialist beliefs were common currency in the culture of that time, there were opponents to Kipling's poetic misrepresentation of imperial conquest and colonisation, notably Mark Twain (To the Person Sitting in Darkness, 1901) and William James; for them, "The White Man's Burden" was plain of manner, meaning, and intent.[19]

This is also the reason why I often object to more contemporary portrayals of racists as simple-headed buffoons, wild-eyed rednecks, and/or fanatical Nazis. For one thing, they're easy to identify and point out - and they're already pretty odious and unpalatable to most people anyway. But the wealthy white liberals who are supposedly "well-intentioned" - they're the ones you gotta watch out for.

 

[Spiderman]

It may not have been intentional, but not every form of racism necessarily involved hatred, greed, or murder. There was also the White Man's Burden variety (The White Man's Burden - Wikipedia):



This is also the reason why I often object to more contemporary portrayals of racists as simple-headed buffoons, wild-eyed rednecks, and/or fanatical Nazis. For one thing, they're easy to identify and point out - and they're already pretty odious and unpalatable to most people anyway. But the wealthy white liberals who are supposedly "well-intentioned" - they're the ones you gotta watch out for.

I don't support the philosophy of "the white man's burden". I am disgusted with how the British Empire treated African tribes, and as a kid I was fond of that movie Zulu Dawn, which is a true story about African Zulus with spears, massacring 1500 British soldiers who are armed with guns, cannons, and rocket launchers. I felt it served the British right!

I simply pointed out an obvious fact that there are people who are benefiting from their ancestors being brought over to America, and I see it every day. There's nothing racist about it, it's just a fact.

 

[Jumi]

Feelings before facts right?

You're the one who thinks Africa is all abject poverty without any proof. I wouldn't even be surprised if you ignored abject poverty in your own country, a thing that your country has way more than any other Western country.

 

[Jumi]

Why wouldn't they? Would you rather be living in abject poverty in Africa? Do you believe that would be better?

Still repeating the same thing even when your imaginary it's all mud huts got demolished.

 

[Spiderman]

It may not have been intentional, but not every form of racism necessarily involved hatred, greed, or murder. There was also the White Man's Burden variety (The White Man's Burden - Wikipedia):



This is also the reason why I often object to more contemporary portrayals of racists as simple-headed buffoons, wild-eyed rednecks, and/or fanatical Nazis. For one thing, they're easy to identify and point out - and they're already pretty odious and unpalatable to most people anyway. But the wealthy white liberals who are supposedly "well-intentioned" - they're the ones you gotta watch out for.

I admire Malcolm X very much. He's my buddy, and his spirit lives on.

He said something very similar to what you said about well-intentioned wealthy white liberals. He had a stronger distaste for them, than he had for people who were Nazis or the KKK.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

You set up a situation of saying that person is better off here than his ancestors homeland. That is irrelevant to how that person is treated today. Call it whatever you want.

Of course it isn't irrelevant, and even if it was it still wouldn't be a straw man as nothing is being misrepresented.
The reason it isn't irrelevant is because we are discussing a specific assertion, 'American black people are beter off because of slavery';which is to say that American black people of african ancestry are better off here than they would be there, which is a direct result of the slave trade.

I understand these kinds of facts might be triggering or whatever to some, but they are still facts.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Still repeating the same thing even when your imaginary it's all mud huts got demolished.

Demolished? Not yet. Are you really asking me to do your homework for you and argue against myself? Do feel free to look into the poverty statistics in Africa and contrast them to even the poorest American neighborhood. I look forward to your 'demolish'.

 

[Stevicus]

I don't support the philosophy of "the white man's burden". I am disgusted with how the British Empire treated African tribes, and as a kid I was fond of that movie Zulu Dawn, which is a true story about African Zulus with spears, massacring 1500 British soldiers who are armed with guns, cannons, and rocket launchers. I felt it served the British right!

I simply pointed out an obvious fact that there are people who are benefiting from their ancestors being brought over to America, and I see it every day. There's nothing racist about it, it's just a fact.

They may benefit from living in America, although this would be just as true regardless of how their ancestors were brought over. But there were Africans who were forcibly brought to other European colonies in the Americas, such as Haiti or Jamaica, where the people aren't doing as well as they are here in the U.S.

 

[Jumi]

Demolished? Not yet. Are you really asking me to do your homework for you and argue against myself? Do feel free to look into the poverty statistics in Africa and contrast them to even the poorest American neighborhood. I look forward to your 'demolish'.

My homework? You're the guy who thinks it's all mudhuts and abject poverty. If you're going to prove that you've got your work cut out for you.

If you can't make out what's in the picture I showed you, that's on you. Hint: it's not mudhuts.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Pointing out that I have witnessed personally, in the environments that I lived, that the poor, the unemployed, and disenfranchised and homeless are treated a lot better in America than Africa, is not a racist statement or conclusion. It's just obvious for anyone who knows about the poverty, famine, war, slavery, intolerant regimes, tribal conflict, and scarcity of running water and food, in Africa.

Well lets bring em all over to pay for the right to improve their lot with slavery. Nonetheless it is still irrelevant to the racism of the op and the topic of racism in general. I say it is a lame attempt to deflect the fact of societal racism by muddying the waters and changing the topic.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Of course it isn't irrelevant, and even if it was it still wouldn't be a straw man as nothing is being misrepresented.
The reason it isn't irrelevant is because we are discussing a specific assertion, 'American black people are beter off because of slavery';which is to say that American black people of african ancestry are better off here than they would be there, which is a direct result of the slave trade.

I understand these kinds of facts might be triggering or whatever to some, but they are still facts.

And you persist in your irrelevancy to racist practices.

 

[Spiderman]

The sun comes up in the east which helps the situation as much as your facts. Refute that or run out of straw men and run away. Yet racism lives in vapid statements such as yours.

There is no racism in my statements, neither was there a strawman.

The only person with anything resembling a strawman is you, who are going by your feelings rather than facing well-documented facts.

This map shows where the world’s 30 million slaves live. There are 60,000 in the U.S.

African nations typically fall toward the bottom of any list measuring small size economic activity, such as income per capita or GDP per capita, despite a wealth of natural resources. In 2009, 22 of 24 nations identified as having "Low Human Development" on the United Nations' (UN) Human Development Index were in Sub-Saharan Africa.[1] In 2006, 34 of the 50 nations on the UN list of least developed countries are in Africa....despite...Over $500 billion (U.S.) has been sent to African nations in the form of direct aid.[11][12] The consensus is that the money has had little long-term effect
Poverty in Africa - Wikipedia

The Islamic fundamentalist group Boko Haram is waging a war against the Nigerian government and against the Christian community in Nigeria.
Wars and Conflicts of Burundi.

Here's what I've seen on the news in my lifetime.
Congo War
Libyan Civil War
"Lord's Resistance Army" now ranges between South Sudan, Congo, Uganda, and the Central African Republic and is pursued by the military forces of all these nations (mostly by Uganda), and also by Special Forces from the United States.
Northern Mali Conflict
Somali Civil War
South Sudan-Sudan Border Conflict
South Sudan Civil War
https://www.historyguy.com/wars_of_africa_current.html

A large percent of people in Africa have no running water, no washing machine, no ability to take a shower, and no plumbing.
Water scarcity in Africa - Wikipedia

"There has been the least progress toward reducing hunger in the sub- Saharan region, where more than one in four people remain undernourished – the highest prevalence of any region in the world."
Africa Hunger Facts, Africa Poverty Facts - World Hunger News

You can play the 'racist' card all you want. I have simply stated the facts and you have presented nothing to refute it! Bottom line is, you lose, and you are the only one with a strawman! God forbid anyone should trouble you with the facts! Africa has some of the worst poverty, violence, corrupt regimes, water scarcity, lack of healthcare, hunger, bigotry, slavery, and ignorance, on our current planet!

 

[Spiderman]

They may benefit from living in America, although this would be just as true regardless of how their ancestors were brought over. But there were Africans who were forcibly brought to other European colonies in the Americas, such as Haiti or Jamaica, where the people aren't doing as well as they are here in the U.S.

That is a very good point...and I have much sorrow for those who have had to suffer that and continue to suffer the effects...it is very sad. The slave trade was completely evil and goes against my conscience. I'm not defending it.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

There is no racism in my statements, neither was there a strawman.

The only person with anything resembling a strawman is you, who are going by your feelings rather than facing well-documented facts.

This map shows where the world’s 30 million slaves live. There are 60,000 in the U.S.

African nations typically fall toward the bottom of any list measuring small size economic activity, such as income per capita or GDP per capita, despite a wealth of natural resources. In 2009, 22 of 24 nations identified as having "Low Human Development" on the United Nations' (UN) Human Development Index were in Sub-Saharan Africa.[1] In 2006, 34 of the 50 nations on the UN list of least developed countries are in Africa....despite...Over $500 billion (U.S.) has been sent to African nations in the form of direct aid.[11][12] The consensus is that the money has had little long-term effect
Poverty in Africa - Wikipedia

The Islamic fundamentalist group Boko Haram is waging a war against the Nigerian government and against the Christian community in Nigeria.
Wars and Conflicts of Burundi.

Here's what I've seen on the news in my lifetime.
Congo War
Libyan Civil War
"Lord's Resistance Army" now ranges between South Sudan, Congo, Uganda, and the Central African Republic and is pursued by the military forces of all these nations (mostly by Uganda), and also by Special Forces from the United States.
Northern Mali Conflict
Somali Civil War
South Sudan-Sudan Border Conflict
South Sudan Civil War
Current Wars of Africa

A large percent of people in Africa have no running water, no washing machine, no ability to take a shower, and no plumbing.
Water scarcity in Africa - Wikipedia

"There has been the least progress toward reducing hunger in the sub- Saharan region, where more than one in four people remain undernourished – the highest prevalence of any region in the world."
Africa Hunger Facts, Africa Poverty Facts - World Hunger News

You can play the 'racist' card all you want. I have simply stated the facts and you have presented nothing to refute it! Bottom line is, you lose, and you are the only one with a strawman! God forbid anyone should trouble you with the facts! Africa has some of the worst poverty, violence, corrupt regimes, water scarcity, lack of healthcare, hunger, bigotry, slavery, and ignorance, on our current planet!

And you go on and on ignoring the point of the op concerning the existing racism that Epic experiences. The only thing I can conclude is that you are using this smoke screen to maintain a comfortable status quo.
This reminds me of the Kaepernic fiasco. He was protesting racism in America and the racists stole the argument and transformed it into one of patriotism. You have now tried to offer slavery as the straw man substitute for racism.

...and racism continues.