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Featured Slavery in the Bible, (and Quran)

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by SA Huguenot, Jun 19, 2019.

  1. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Active Member

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    I read Dan Mellis' thread: Slavery in the Bible, and I just can not believe that anyone will make a claim on this topic without actually reading what the Bible says.
    No, Dan! It is wrong to even attempt to blame slavery on the Bible, and God, if you never read the Bible for yourself pal!
    let me give you a small compilation on what I found the Bible actually...say about slavery.
    And as a bonus, what Islam says.
    keep in mind that the American slave trade was stopped by Christians who found scriptural support in fighting slavery, and it was the USA and England that stopped slavery in Africa by the hand if Muslims.
    Enjoy.

    I attach the PDF study to allow you to read through it, and to see if you can prove me wrong.
     

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  2. Shia Islam

    Shia Islam Quran and Ahlul-Bayt a.s.
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    Islam was successful in fighting slavery..
    That is why you can't see slavery in the Muslim countries today..
    Slavery was legal in the west, until the recent era..

    Read the following in the Quran to see what slavery means according to Islam:

    Think of the relation between killing a believer and freeing a believing slave!!
     
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  3. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    Liberals were the most successful at abolishing slavery, I say they were liberals because they prohibited that which their holy books deemed lawful, and that goes for both Christianity and Islam
     
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  4. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Active Member

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    My dear Muslim friend.
    Please go and read my attachment on my post, and you will see that your own quran says:
    • If you break an oath you have three choices to pay for that offence. One of them is to free a slave. Q 5: 89 [1]Note:
      • Therefore, the Islamic god never knew the prescribed term of a slave was 6 years!
    • If a man rejected his wife, he should free a “captive” before they “touch” each other again. Q 4: 3[2]
      • A slave is equal to having sex with your estranged wife?
    • If one kills someone by mistake, you can free a Muslim slave as payment of guilt. Q 4: 92[3].
      • What, a murderer can pay with a slave, his way out of killing someone?
    • Muhammad was allowed to marry as many as “those your right hand possesses” (female slaves carried away as booty after war). All other Muslims were also allowed to marry these female slaves.
      • Please note that Allah was the one who gave these female slaves to them in the first instance! (Q 33: 50[4]) and (Q 23: 6[5]) And the Muslim scholar has the audacity to accuse Jehovah as a slave monger!
    • There is a bit of compassion in the Quran for the female slave where the Muslims are not allowed to force the female slave in prostitution if she wants to remain chaste, but it is very vague. Q 24: 33[6].
      • However, look closely to what Allah says; don’t force a female slave into prostitution to gain a nice living if she wants to remain chaste, but if you do force her into prostitution to receive worldly gain for a comfortable life, Allah is all forgiving!
    • Muslims are not allowed to marry any women that are already married. Except of course, female slaves can be taken as a wife even if they are married! Q 4: 25[7].
      • How nice, we can go and capture women when we make war, take them as a wife even if they were married! It seems as if any marriage not blessed by Allah, is no marriage at all. Muslim men therefore can take any non-Muslim women as a slave and rape her under the pretence that she is his wife! He can even force her into prostitution and Allah will be forgiving! What about the woman? Does she not possess a living spirit?
    • Allah gave some Muslims more possessions than the rest. Those who were favoured by Allah would never hand their possessions over to the slaves. That would mean the slave never became equal to the Muslim master. Q 16: 71[8]
      • Wow, Allah ensures that the slave stays a slave!
    • No prophet is allowed to take captives if he did not first inflict a massacre in the country he attacked. Q 8: 67 -70[9].
      • Ok, so according to the Quran and Allah, the European countries were correct in colonizing Africa to obtain slaves! War booty came from Allah as a gift to the Muslims that participated in war! All you have to do is to tell the war captives that Allah placed you in Muslim hands because Allah knows it is better for you! What a nice way to sooth your conscience dear Muslim slave owner and female kidnapper!
    • If a slave girl married to a Muslim is caught committing adultery, she gets half the punishment than what a free Muslim woman gets for that offence. Q 4: 25[10].
      • The punishment for the Muslim woman that committed adultery is also a confusing revelation. In Q 24: 2[11] it says she should receive 100 lashes, but in Q 4: 15[12] the punishment is confinement for life!
      • So what should the punishment for adultery be? This is exceptionally confusing since Muslims in the Islamic countries stone women found guilty of adultery. Such a law is not to be found in the Quran at all because after Muhammad died, a goat ate the Quran manuscript containing the verses of stoning! Even more confusing is the fact that the men don’t get stoned to death as well! Will we confine this slave woman up for half her life, or give her 50 lashes, or stone her half dead?

    [1]Q 5: 89 Allah … He will impose blame upon you for [breaking] what you intended of oaths. So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people … or clothing them or the freeing of a slave. …

    [2] Q 4: 3 And (as for) those who put away their wives by likening their backs to the backs of their mothers then would recall what they said, they should free a captive before they touch each other; …

    [3] Q 4: 92 And it does not behoove a believer to kill a believer except by mistake, and whoever kills a believer by mistake, he should free a believing slave, .. the freeing of a believing slave (suffices), …

    [4] Q 33: 50 O Prophet, indeed We have made lawful to you your wives to whom you have given their due compensation and those your right hand possesses (female slaves) from what Allah has returned to you [of captives] and … We certainly know what We have made obligatory upon them concerning their wives and those their right hands possess (female slaves)…

    [5] Q 23: 6 Except from their wives or those their right hands possess (female slaves), for indeed, they will not be blamed –

    [6] Q 24: 33 But let them who find not [the means for] marriage abstain [from sexual relations] until Allah enriches them from His bounty. And those who seek a contract [for eventual emancipation] from among whom your right hands possess (female slaves) – then make a contract with them if you know there is within them goodness and give them from the wealth of Allah which He has given you. And do not compel your slave girls to prostitution, if they desire chastity …And if someone should compel them, then indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

    [7] Q 4: 25And [also prohibited to you are all] married women except those your right hands possess (female slaves). [This is] the decree of Allah upon you. And lawful to you are [all others] beyond these, [provided] that you seek them [in marriage] with [gifts from] your property, desiring chastity, not unlawful sexual intercourse. So for whatever you enjoy [of marriage] from them, give them their due compensation as an obligation. And there is no blame upon you for what you mutually agree to beyond the obligation. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.

    [8] Q 16: 71 And Allah has favored some of you over others in provision. But those who were favored would not hand over their provision to those whom their right hands possess (slaves) so they would be equal to them therein. Then is it the favor of Allah they reject? (16:71)

    [9] Q 8: 67 – 70 It is not for a prophet to have captives [of war] until he inflicts a massacre [upon Allah ‘s enemies] in the land. …

    If not for a decree from Allah that preceded, …

    So consume what you have taken of war booty [as being] lawful and good, and fear Allah. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful. (69)

    O Prophet, say to whoever is in your hands of the captives, “If Allah knows [any] good in your hearts, He will give you [something] better than what was taken from you, and He will forgive you; and Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.” (70)

    [10] Q 4: 25 And whoever among you cannot [find] the means to marry free, believing women, then [he may marry] from those whom your right hands possess of believing slave girls. …But once they are sheltered in marriage, if they should commit adultery, then for them is half the punishment for free [unmarried] women.

    [11] Q 24: 2 The [unmarried] woman or [unmarried] man found guilty of sexual intercourse – lash each one of them with a hundred lashes, …

    [12] Q 4: 15 Those who commit unlawful sexual intercourse of your women – bring against them four [witnesses] from among you. And if they testify, confine the guilty women to houses until death takes them or Allah ordains for them [another] way.
     
  5. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Active Member

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    And dont burry your head in a hole.
    Islam still practices slavery today.
    In Lybia and Oman there are slave markets pal!
     
  6. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Active Member

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    Now why would you say the Bible deemed Slavery lawfull?
    Oh because you did not even read what the Bible says about the topic.
    Dont you think it will be a wize thing to do before making incorrect accusations?
     
  7. Unguru

    Unguru I am a Sikh nice to meet you

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    Who owns you?
     
  8. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Active Member

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    My Lord and God Jesus Christ who Himself destroyed death, and changed the corrupt human body that perrish, into one that can not die.
    He who is the Word of YHWH, the Creator, who dwells with the Spirit of YHWH.
    The Trinity, the Word, Existance and Spirit, His Holy Name is YHWH!
    He who exists (from ever to ever.)
     
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  9. Unguru

    Unguru I am a Sikh nice to meet you

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    I'm glad you're not an atheist but I meant my question in the way of the economy. We're obviously not self-owned (legally and by the way of property ownership either).
    I think slavery never went away, it just re-branded itself.
     
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  10. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Active Member

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    Well...yes.
    There is a huge difference in "being the object" of economy, and one "participating" in the economy.

    The only reason why Slavery eventually stopped in the West, was due to the high cost in supporting slaves, versus buying a machine that could do the job.
    If you perceive yourself as a slave in the economy and are owned by Bankers, I will only find it amusing, nothing more.
    If you are participating in such an economic venture where you manipulate the Banker to obtain machines to work for you to free yourself from hard labour, I will find it macnificent.
    I choose to be a servant to the economic principals, to free myself from being the machine of economic principals.
    I buy electricity to enjoy light. I make money for my company, to receive some to buy electricity.
    else I will spent my days in darkness and cold chopping wood to survive.

    This is what made the Western civilisation the greatest one in history, and why the Eastern philosophy of staying a slave resulted in no advancement in science, for instance.
     
  11. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    The whole, 'Christianity is responsible for slavery!!', is just another phony narrative, promoted by indoctrinees in a competing religious belief.. :shrug:

    It is a smear, with all the evidence contrary. Christianity almost SINGLE HANDEDLY purged slavery, beginning in the dark ages. To pretend that atheism or Marxism ended slavery, and Christianity promoted it, is absurd revisionism from progressive indoctrinees..
     
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  12. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I wonder how much conscience ever really has
    had to do with freeing the slaves.

    For all that it is said that the USA and other
    countries were build on the backs of slaves,
    I think it more likely that the overall effect
    was far more an economic loss.

    Around the world including the USA, slavery
    continues, when someone can get away with it
    and it makes economic sense.
     
  13. usfan

    usfan Well-Known Member

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    Many monks contributed much toward a more just and moral society. From the ranks of the monks emerged the earliest condemnation of slavery. Gregory the Theologian, bishop of Nazianzus first, and later Patriarch of Constantinople, denounced the practice of holding slaves. His friend Basil of Ceasarea did not favor it but tolerated the institution as an established evil. Their contemporary Eustathios of Sebasteia condemned slavery and even advocated revolts by slaves. Later in the eighth and early ninth centuries, Theodore the Studite denounced slavery and forbade monks to possess, and the monastery to employ, slaves. In his rules for the hegoumenos of the Studios Monastery, Theodore advised: “You shall not possess a slave either for your own use or for your monastery or for the fields, since man was created in the image of God.” Eustathios, the twelfth century monk, archbishop of Thessaloniki, and critic and reformer of monasticism, condemned slavery as an evil and unnatural institution and advocated manumission.
    Demetrios Constantelos– Christian Faith and Cultural Heritage: Essays

    An excerpt from an excellent article on slavery and Christianity:
    Absolute religious equality, as proclaimed by Christianity, was therefore a novelty. The Church made no account of the social condition of the faithful. Bond and free received the same sacraments. Clerics of servile origin were numerous (St. Jerome, Ep. lxxxii). The very Chair of St. Peter was occupied by men who had been slaves — Pius in the second century, Callistus in the third. So complete — one might almost say, so levelling — was this Christian equality that St. Paul (1 Timothy 6:2), and, later, St. Ignatius (Polyc., iv), are obliged to admonish the slave and the handmaid not to contemn their masters, "believers like them and sharing in the same benefits". In giving them a place in religious society, the Church restored to slaves the family and marriage. In Roman law, neither legitimate marriage, nor regular paternity, nor even impediment to the most unnatural unions had existed for the slave

    CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Slavery and Christianity

    It is prejudicial, absurd revisionism, to blame 'Christianity!' :eek: for slavery, when it was the driving force to end it, over the centuries.
     
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  14. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    You do know that what enabled "western civ." (Europe, then
    America)to become "great" was the systematic looting
    of the rest of the world.

    The Star of India in the crown jewels is very symbolic,
    the refined essence of what made "Great" Britain.
     
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  15. Audie

    Audie Veteran Member

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    I personally do not feel a slave to anyone or anything.
    I doubt anyone can be a slave and not know it.
    And-
    I think it variously unsuitable for anyone who is
    physically able to get up and leave town to think
    of call himself a "slave".
    Picking on the USA here, but for sure not when
    in every state and big city, there are young women
    being held as actual slaves, and their plight
    is mostly ignored; one does not hear about how
    slavery lives on in the US. Most would deny it.
     
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  16. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The Dark Ages lasted from about 450 Ad to 1450 AD.
     
  17. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Active Member

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    I would blame such doing on politicians and Kings during the 1800's.
    The Brittish crown, European conqurers, and fortune seekers was those that deliberately took what they wanted without regard to the people who's countries they overpowered.
    However, even as an Afrikaner in South Africa, my great grandmom and 5 siblings were in a Brittish concentration camp, and the only survivor after they hungered the children and women out to die like sick rats. My grandfather on father side, fought as a Boer, and when he returned to his farm in 1903 after being held at ST Helena as a POW, he found not a single livestock out of 300 cattle he had. His house was burned down, his wife and 4 children died in the camps.
    Why?
    because Queen Victoria wanted the Gold in the Transvaal and the Diamonds in the Free State.
    Then again, a Christian woman from the hated English, Emmily Hobhouse, took the whole Brittish Empire on and stood up against these atrocities they committed.
    The fact is that where the Christian works, rigtiousness prevails.
    We can blame the oppressors, but not the people of the countries who had nothing to do with these terrible things.

    So what is the moral of the story?
    The Afrikaner did not consider themself as oppressed, they lifted their arses and started to work for their living. Eventually they again ruled their own country, untill Communism overtook us.
    We dont blame people for what happened 50 years and 100 years ago!
    No we learn out of it.
    What did the Americans do about first being descendends of slaves, and second being descendends of slave keepers?
    Well, the Black people who were enslaved kept on with their struggle to attain equality with the Whites.
    Great stuff I say!
    A few still want to feel sorry for themself and blame everything they fail at on the descendends of the Whites!
    Silly I say.
    The Whites, well they are so spineless nowadays, that they fall for their liberal socialist leaders who want to keep blacks in a state of mental slavery, and the Whites in a state of guilt!
    No damit, you are the greatest nation on Earth with the greatest contribution on freedom to the world!
    Blacks are not slaves, for a helova long time already, and Whites are not opressing Blacks anymore, and to claim such is a blatant lie which the Democrates are exploiting.

    No my dear friend, the star of India is next to the Cullinan diamond, from South Africa, and to me it simbolises how the West had to take my people at their necks and jerked them into what we today consider as the Free World.
    I am not a slave, nor a slave monger, but someone that are now working to change the future for my children.
    These countries who had slavery, also gave us technology, science, peace, and every thing we know that can be called, western discoveries.
     
  18. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Active Member

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    Oh, by the way, I would like to see the sex slave trade boses to be executed in public.
     
  19. sooda

    sooda Well-Known Member

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    The Dutch were pretty strong in the slave trade.. You can't sugar coat it. They hauled the first Africans to work the sugar plantations in Brazil by 1600.
     
  20. Epic Beard Man

    Epic Beard Man Bearded Philosopher

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    Right, then it introduced reconstruction, Jim Crow etc.....

    No, Christianity was not the cause of abolition.
     
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