Sin of Denominationalism

[Truthseeker]

Yes, the truth is what matters. What God has said matters, not what what someone may feel or think. Its what the Bible says

As a Baha'i I would go beyond that. It is also what the Qur'an says, the Writings of the Bab says, and the Writings of Baha'u'llah. I have determined for myself through the evidence that Baha'u'llah is a true Prophet, so therefore the Bab and Muhammad are true Prophets. You should look at the evidence and not cling to your opinions about the Bible. The Bible must be interpreted, and only a Prophet knows the true interpretation. The interpretation is not obvious, because through the Word of God, God tests us. You are being tested right now. Jesus did not say that some of what He said was symbolic, because that is a way to test between the sheep and the goats.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

I say we get back to the Bible and teach ONLY what the Bible says.

Good idea. Everyone agrees as to that the Bible says.

Oh, what version?

 

[Akivah]

Please tell me that his username kinda bothers you too

Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

 

[Akivah]

The individual is the temple. It's where the Spirit is, lives. Not a building. Or a church.

The church in Christianity, has become what the Temple is in Judaism.

So you use a Christian definition for the word 'temple' and then try to make an argument using it claiming your definition has something to do with Judaism. I believe that's called a Strawman.

The rest of your post is just christian stuff that has nothing to do with Judaism.

 

[Phantasman]

So you use a Christian definition for the word 'temple' and then try to make an argument using it claiming your definition has something to do with Judaism. I believe that's called a Strawman.

The rest of your post is just christian stuff that has nothing to do with Judaism.

Correct. Judaism is not Christianity. They are separate beliefs. Including the definition of what temple is.

 

[CohenDavidson]

Good idea. Everyone agrees as to that the Bible says.

Oh, what version?

King James is a very accurate version. Some versions take many parts of scripture out. Queen James version for example. You will regret it. Many benefits can be draw from looking at the original Hebrew and Greek

 

[CohenDavidson]

As a Baha'i I would go beyond that. It is also what the Qur'an says, the Writings of the Bab says, and the Writings of Baha'u'llah. I have determined for myself through the evidence that Baha'u'llah is a true Prophet, so therefore the Bab and Muhammad are true Prophets. You should look at the evidence and not cling to your opinions about the Bible. The Bible must be interpreted, and only a Prophet knows the true interpretation. The interpretation is not obvious, because through the Word of God, God tests us. You are being tested right now. Jesus did not say that some of what He said was symbolic, because that is a way to test between the sheep and the goats.

It is evident that Muhammad was not a prophet. Consider the stories in the Quran. These stories are obviously cut and pasted from the Jewish Talmud. Muhammad was a plagiarist. Any Jew will tell you that any of the stories in the Talmud are epics and traditional tales passed from generations. Muhammad included theses stories in the Quran and portrayed them as true. Look at the stories in the Old Testament. These were written hundreds of years before the birth of Muhammad, yet similar stories find their way in the Quran. This is not a coincidence. Muhammad grew up in the presence of Christians and Jews. He used his power to manipulate women in the name of "Allah". He also recognizes Jesus as prophet. If this is so, then someone is lying. Jesus was the complete opposite of Muhammad. He backed his word with miracles and a resurrection. A dead savior is useless. Jesus came back. As for not being able to interpret scripture, I'm not sure where you got that. Jesus tells us we are to live by God's word. Matthew 4:4 The Bible is God's word. Why would God give us something as necessary as food and not give us the ability to eat it. This is the same as scripture. He would not give us the bread of life (scripture) and not give us the ability to eat and digest it (comprehend and apply). James 1:25 tells us we are able to look into the scriptures and apply them.

 

[Phantasman]

It is evident that Muhammad was not a prophet. Consider the stories in the Quran. These stories are obviously cut and pasted from the Jewish Talmud. Muhammad was a plagiarist. Any Jew will tell you that any of the stories in the Talmud are epics and traditional tales passed from generations. Muhammad included theses stories in the Quran and portrayed them as true. Look at the stories in the Old Testament. These were written hundreds of years before the birth of Muhammad, yet similar stories find their way in the Quran. This is not a coincidence. Muhammad grew up in the presence of Christians and Jews. He used his power to manipulate women in the name of "Allah". He also recognizes Jesus as prophet. If this is so, then someone is lying. Jesus was the complete opposite of Muhammad. He backed his word with miracles and a resurrection. A dead savior is useless. Jesus came back. As for not being able to interpret scripture, I'm not sure where you got that. Jesus tells us we are to live by God's word. Matthew 4:4 The Bible is God's word. Why would God give us something as necessary as food and not give us the ability to eat it. This is the same as scripture. He would not give us the bread of life (scripture) and not give us the ability to eat and digest it (comprehend and apply). James 1:25 tells us we are able to look into the scriptures and apply them.

I like this post. I see much of the same.

My only view that differs is what the word of God is. I don't see the Bible as the word of God just because the catholic ideology that created it says it is. Jesus said the the "word of God" was the seed. Something that needs fertile ground to grow. He said that the Spirit that would be given (after resurrection) would be what leads us to "all truth". It would be this Spirit what it heard from the Father would speak to us.

If this Spirit speaks from the Father, and Jesus came from the Father to speak, then who spoke to the Jews. Acts 7 says it was angels. And Jesus said we have never heard the voice of the Father. With this revelation, the non Canon Christian books were written by those who heard the Father more than the Jews. So how can the Jews be the word of God? I found the answer in John and Paul. Both declaring to put aside the Jews religion to follow the Spirit (capital S) that the Jews never had.

 

[CohenDavidson]

And human. Don't commit the bible's mistake of being defeated by your own logic. If humans can't be trusted and humans wrote the bible, the bible cannot be trusted.

I don't believe the Bible included the opinions of the writers. According to the Bible the men were pens in God's hand, so humans did not actually come up with the ideas presented in the Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16

The Satanist Temple has lately been doing more moral things than many Christians who seek the shallowest form of praise from Jesus.

Please explain

The bible says what the author felt or thought God wanted.

example?

If the consensus is to jump off a cliff, should we?

??? Not Following

Not everyone who calls out Jesus' name will be recognized as such. God can create butt-kissers out of rocks. Group identity doesn't save

True, not everyone who calls upon Jesus's name will be saved, Only the ones who do his will. Not sure what you mean by the second part...

That's terrible. The bible has mountains of inhuman moral advice.

Elaborate

Keep going. For all your study, you seem to be unaware of quite a bit.

I do admit I have a lot more to learn. The Bible is rich with knowledge. I will not back down on my stance that the Bible contains applicable and liberating truth. I do not boast that I have found this myself! But the knowledge I have been presented with and have uncovered Is the unpopular truth. I will not back down from that!

I don't agree with Paul on anything except maybe "in Christ there is no male, female, etc, etc." I consider him a trojan horse virus designed to destroy the Way. Stoning them wasn't working. Might as well infiltrate the group and take it over. If there is to be no division, why does he clearly hate the actual apostles who hung out with Jesus?

You must not have read accounts of Paul. He converted souls and educated his life to the furtherance of the gospel. He wrote to other churches giving them advice and speaking of how he longed to see them face to face. Many of the books in the Bible were written by Paul. You really need to reconsider this stance. I would start by reading all of his letter to the churches in Philippi Corinth and Rome. He obviously was not a Trojan horse. Once again. The Holy spirit inspired Paul. Paul was like a pin in God's hand. 2 Peter 1:20 Shows how Peter as inspired by God.

There is no such thing as a Gospel of Jesus, at least in canon. We only have texts supposedly by the people Jesus claimed didn't understand him.

???

But why do we HAVE to come to Paul's?

You are picking and choosing. If you want to Believe the Bible you have to believe it in its fullness. Revelation 22:18-19

Curious, because the gospels report Jesus as complaining his apostles are morons who aren't understanding him. So do they know the truth or not?

Explain and site reference.

 

[CohenDavidson]

That would still be division. Jesus didn't invent Christianity, a term that didn't come into being until long after he died. He was a Jew. Christianity is an offshoot of Judaism. Islam is related to both. Judaism is the mother and Christianity and Islam are sibling offspring. Jesus wanted to reform Judaism. His apostles, even early on before Jesus ever died, show clear intentions to exclude people they don't like, even being chastised by Jesus for it at one point.

It is true Jesus was a Jew... He kept the law of Moses perfectly. This was very difficult considering the over 600 laws and statutes. Christianity is not a offshoot, but a fulfillment of the old law. Matthew 5:17-18. See the law of Moses was not capable of forgiveness. It was only capable of delaying. Jesus came to do what the old law could not do. Sacrifices of animals could not forgive sin. Hebrews 10:4. The blood of Jesus could. Matthew 26:28
Jesus came to give that forgiveness. By his death a new law was set in motion. Colossians 2:14-17 When seeing the Bible in its full context, you see that The new covalent was all part of God's plan. And through that new covenant justification is possible. The prophets of old spoke Jesus's coming ad how changes will be brought with him. Joel 2:32 speaks of forgiveness being possible in the future. It came to pass in Acts 2:21. This could not be done under the old law, only the new law. But, when you speak of it still being division... you miss the point. Jesus did not intend for division to take place within the church he created. He wanted his body(church) under the new covalent to remain in the truth and remain unified in all aspects of belief.

 

[Shad]

I say we get back to the Bible and teach ONLY what the Bible says.
ALL of the denominations have taken to or added to the word. This is strictly condemned Revelation 22:18-21. Its hard, but you can rule out all of the churches that do not do what the Bible says, this is pretty much all of them. The devil is clever. He has created these denominations to confuse the masses. We must find the first century church today. God would not have let it die out. It is still around today. Their are those who are still trying to avoid false doctrine. Romans 16:17

Said no denomination, ever. The irony of this post..... You are no different than most of those you accuse. You doing exactly what others have done.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

I don't believe the Bible included the opinions of the writers. According to the Bible the men were pens in God's hand, so humans did not actually come up with the ideas presented in the Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16

And the authors would never lie, right?

Please explain

When Christians here in the US want to do something immoral, it's usually the Satanic Temple that trolls them into hopefully realizing how awful their laws are.

example?

Genesis through Revelation. Please show me a Gospel of God that can be traced back to God. All the books have human authors attributed to them. God wrote nothing. God writes in reality itself.

??? Not Following

You believe in ideological conformity, right? If the conformity tells you to jump off a cliff to your death, will you? After all, isn't it immoral to disagree with the group?

True, not everyone who calls upon Jesus's name will be saved, Only the ones who do his will. Not sure what you mean by the second part...

Calling yourself a Christian tells me nothing about how good a person anyone is.

Elaborate

I'm beginning to wonder if you've ever read it outside of quote mining.

I will not back down on my stance that the Bible contains applicable and liberating truth.

So does The Muppet Movie from the 70s. Truth is out there. You can see it in everything.

But the knowledge I have been presented with and have uncovered Is the unpopular truth.

I'm not convinced you've shown me much knowledge at all.

He converted souls and educated his life to the furtherance of the gospel.

He attracted people to listen to him and his opinions on what God wanted out of them. And there were no gospels for him to further, because they hadn't been written yet.

He is like Joel Osteen, in my estimation: A rank fraud who puts up his own image on the big screen tv behind the pulpit and tricks idiots into swallowing all the filth he spews out.

He wrote to other churches giving them advice and speaking of how he longed to see them face to face.

He once advised a church to punish a woman without proof she ever did anything. They could just be slandering her.

Many of the books in the Bible were written by Paul.

That only proves he liked to write, not that he was moral or filled with Truth.

The Holy spirit inspired Paul.

Ac ... cord ... ing ... to ... Paul.

???

How have you not read Jesus complaining his disciples haven't understood him? It's all over!

You are picking and choosing.

So are you.

If you want to Believe the Bible you have to believe it in its fullness. Revelation 22:18-19

I also don't think a drug-addled writer of revenge porn should be considered sacred either. That book almost didn't make it into canon, and I actually agree with the side against it. It's a stupid story of "people were mean so I want to ensure they burn in hell in front of my eyes". I mean, I get he's upset he's in jail, but grow up.

Explain and site reference.

Any parable where the apostles ask him to explain it to them. Read your own sacred text. Leave the Chick Tracts alone.

t is true Jesus was a Jew... He kept the law of Moses perfectly.

LOL. He broke at least two of the Ten Commandments, on multiple occasions. That he had a smartmouthed reply to his critics about it doesn't change the fact he broke many Mosaic laws.

The blood of Jesus could. Matthew 26:28

Yes, it's been so effective, so far. No Christian, once saved, has ever done anything bad ever aga ... wait...

Jesus came to give that forgiveness.

The OT didn't say that when God forgave someone, it didn't count because Jesus hadn't been born yet.

Joel 2:32 speaks of forgiveness being possible in the future. It came to pass in Acts 2:21.

Anyone can forgive at any time. I don't need Jesus to come back on a white horse from the sky to forgive those who irritate me.

 

[Truthseeker]

It is evident that Muhammad was not a prophet. Consider the stories in the Quran. These stories are obviously cut and pasted from the Jewish Talmud. Muhammad was a plagiarist. Any Jew will tell you that any of the stories in the Talmud are epics and traditional tales passed from generations. Muhammad included theses stories in the Quran and portrayed them as true. Look at the stories in the Old Testament. These were written hundreds of years before the birth of Muhammad, yet similar stories find their way in the Quran. This is not a coincidence. Muhammad grew up in the presence of Christians and Jews. He used his power to manipulate women in the name of "Allah". He also recognizes Jesus as prophet. If this is so, then someone is lying. Jesus was the complete opposite of Muhammad. He backed his word with miracles and a resurrection. A dead savior is useless. Jesus came back. As for not being able to interpret scripture, I'm not sure where you got that. Jesus tells us we are to live by God's word. Matthew 4:4 The Bible is God's word. Why would God give us something as necessary as food and not give us the ability to eat it. This is the same as scripture. He would not give us the bread of life (scripture) and not give us the ability to eat and digest it (comprehend and apply). James 1:25 tells us we are able to look into the scriptures and apply them.

It is evident that Muhammad was not a prophet. Consider the stories in the Quran. These stories are obviously cut and pasted from the Jewish Talmud. Muhammad was a plagiarist.

The Qur'an is not a book of history. The stories are told to get across a message. Some details are different from the Bible. For instance in the Qur'an God told Abraham to sacrifice Ishmael and not Isaac. In the Qur'an Abraham and Noah were prophets and they are not indicated as such in the Bible. The Bible is not wholly authentic. The Pentateuch was written down hundreds of years after Moses, so some details are wrong.

He used his power to manipulate women in the name of "Allah".

No, he did not. What stories are you listening to?

He also recognizes Jesus as prophet. If this is so, then someone is lying.

Muhammad did not lie. Jesus is a prophet, though He doesn't say so. He didn't say He was not. He said He was the Messiah and the Son of God and the Son of Man. The Son of God is not to be taken literally. He is not God. He never said He was. He denied being equal to the Father, though He reflected the Father perfectly. Muhammad also reflected the Father perfectly, though He didn't say that. In a tradition though, He said that He was Jesus. Two people that reflect the Father perfectly are the same to each other. Instead He emphasized His humanness to counteract the deification of Jesus.

Jesus was the complete opposite of Muhammad. He backed his word with miracles and a resurrection. A dead savior is useless. Jesus came back.

Any magician can do miracles. That's not what prophets are about. A miracle is only proof to one who sees it. You can see this by many people denying that Jesus did miracles. His real proof was His Person and His Words just like Muhammad. Many people deny that jesus resurrected physically. Jesus was not dead when He was crucified. His Spirit was still alive. So also is Muhammad's Spirit alive.

As for not being able to interpret scripture, I'm not sure where you got that. Jesus tells us we are to live by God's word. Matthew 4:4 The Bible is God's word. Why would God give us something as necessary as food and not give us the ability to eat it. This is the same as scripture. He would not give us the bread of life (scripture) and not give us the ability to eat and digest it (comprehend and apply). James 1:25 tells us we are able to look into the scriptures and apply them.

There is a lot of scripture that is easy to interpret, such as the teachings we are to live by. But prophecies for example are often symbolic and only a Messenger of God can accurately interpret them. Jesus said He was the bread of life, this cannot be taken literally. It would be easy to interpret this literally and miss the point.

As to Baha'u'llah, though there is not a lot of evidence to convince us of the Reality of Muhammad, there is a boatload of evidence for Baha'u'llah in His life and His Words. Baha'u'llah did do miracles, but we don't use them to try to convince people of His Reality.

 

[Truthseeker]

I don't believe the Bible included the opinions of the writers. According to the Bible the men were pens in God's hand, so humans did not actually come up with the ideas presented in the Bible. 2 Timothy 3:16

"All scripture is inspired by God..."

That doesn't mean that the Bible is dictated by God, it still has the opinions of the authors. Baha'is believe that some details of the Bible are wrong, but the Bible presents the teachings accurately, so Christians and Jews can know how to live their life.

 

[CohenDavidson]

No, he did not. What stories are you listening to?

Look at history... He had 14 wives... one was 9 years old. Come on man, be real. This man used his "message to acquire female companions. If Muhammad was from God, then why does he contradict Jesus on so many principles, such as marriage? Jesus said Marriage is between on man and women and they are not to get divorced except for adultery. Matthew 5:27-32 Muhammad obviously did not do this, having 14 wives. Jesus said we are to love our enemies... Matthew 5:39-44 Muhammad spread Islam with the sword, killing his enemies look at history. Can by no means say that Jesus and Muhammad stood for the same ideas and principles. Jesus taught Christians to be peaceful men and women in the flesh... Muhammad bred violence and destruction.

 

[Akivah]

It is evident that Muhammad was not a prophet. Consider the stories in the Quran. These stories are obviously cut and pasted from the Jewish Talmud. Muhammad was a plagiarist. Any Jew will tell you that any of the stories in the Talmud are epics and traditional tales passed from generations. Muhammad included theses stories in the Quran and portrayed them as true. Look at the stories in the Old Testament. These were written hundreds of years before the birth of Muhammad, yet similar stories find their way in the Quran. This is not a coincidence. Muhammad grew up in the presence of Christians and Jews. He used his power to manipulate women in the name of "Allah". He also recognizes Jesus as prophet. If this is so, then someone is lying. Jesus was the complete opposite of Muhammad. He backed his word with miracles and a resurrection. A dead savior is useless. Jesus came back. As for not being able to interpret scripture, I'm not sure where you got that. Jesus tells us we are to live by God's word. Matthew 4:4 The Bible is God's word. Why would God give us something as necessary as food and not give us the ability to eat it. This is the same as scripture. He would not give us the bread of life (scripture) and not give us the ability to eat and digest it (comprehend and apply). James 1:25 tells us we are able to look into the scriptures and apply them.

The same things can be said about Christianity.

It is evident that Jesus was not a prophet. Consider the stories in the Christian bible. These stories are obviously cut and pasted from the Jewish Bible. Paul was a plagiarist. Any Jew will tell you that any of the stories in the Jewish Bible are traditions passed from generations. Paul included theses stories in the Christian bible and portrayed them as true. Look at the stories in the Jewish bible. These were written hundreds of years before the birth of Jesus, yet similar stories find their way in the Christian bible.

 

[CohenDavidson]

Calling yourself a Christian tells me nothing about how good a person anyone is.

James 2:26 Matthew 7:16 Actions do speak louder than words.
I really don't like this reply thing, so I'm going to answer in full to some of your statement. We obviously aren't getting anywhere with some of these things. About Jesus arguing with the apostles, I'm not denying, I'm asking... Just give me a verse... When were talking about the Bible I'm assuming you Believe it. I believe the whole word of God as truth as I did assume you did. Ever time I quote scripture you say a reason why it is invalid. You cant do that with scripture if you say you believe it, so my question to you... Do you believe any of the scriptures? Because we can conversate that, but as soon as you say they are invalid, I immediately recognize I will never get anywhere with you as long as I am quoting something you deem untrue.

Yes, it's been so effective, so far. No Christian, once saved, has ever done anything bad ever aga ... wait...

1 John 1:5-11 Christianity is not about perfection... We obviously aren't getting anywhere. You do not seem to believe the Bible...Good conversation! You challenged my thoughts greatly, hope I did the same!

 

[CohenDavidson]

The same things can be said about Christianity.

It is evident that Jesus was not a prophet. Consider the stories in the Christian bible. These stories are obviously cut and pasted from the Jewish Bible. Paul was a plagiarist. Any Jew will tell you that any of the stories in the Jewish Bible are traditions passed from generations. Paul included theses stories in the Christian bible and portrayed them as true. Look at the stories in the Jewish bible. These were written hundreds of years before the birth of Jesus, yet similar stories find their way in the Christian bible.

This is where it gets tricky... The old law prophesied that Jesus was coming. Jesus is a historical character written and recorded by historians. Have you ever read the stories in the Jewish Talmud that are magically appearing in the Quran? I'm guessing not... These stories are almost exactly he same... Please give me an example of plagiarism by Paul. When Paul references the old law, that does not count... He is referring back... Muhammad made it as if it was his creation of stories.. as if "Allah" told him these things.

 

[Phantasman]

Look at history... He had 14 wives... one was 9 years old. Come on man, be real. This man used his "message to acquire female companions. If Muhammad was from God, then why does he contradict Jesus on so many principles, such as marriage? Jesus said Marriage is between on man and women and they are not to get divorced except for adultery. Matthew 5:27-32 Muhammad obviously did not do this, having 14 wives. Jesus said we are to love our enemies... Matthew 5:39-44 Muhammad spread Islam with the sword, killing his enemies look at history. Can by no means say that Jesus and Muhammad stood for the same ideas and principles. Jesus taught Christians to be peaceful men and women in the flesh... Muhammad bred violence and destruction.

The Catholic church (through Papal) did the same. Gnostics, Cathers, Heretics, Witches. It's called ignorance of the Gospel truth (jesus taught). It's why Jesus said teach the "Gospel", not the Bible. Catholics taught/followed the Bible.

He who has knowledge of the truth is a free man, but the free man does not sin, for "He who sins is the slave of sin" (Jn 8:34). Truth is the mother, knowledge the father. Those who think that sinning does not apply to them are called "free" by the world. Knowledge of the truth merely makes such people arrogant, which is what the words, "it makes them free" mean. It even gives them a sense of superiority over the whole world. But "Love builds up" (1 Co 8:1). In fact, he who is really free, through knowledge, is a slave, because of love for those who have not yet been able to attain to the freedom of knowledge. Knowledge makes them capable of becoming free. Love never calls something its own, [...] it [...] possess [...]. It never says,"This is yours" or "This is mine," but "All these are yours". Spiritual love is wine and fragrance. All those who anoint themselves with it take pleasure in it. While those who are anointed are present, those nearby also profit (from the fragrance). If those anointed with ointment withdraw from them and leave, then those not anointed, who merely stand nearby, still remain in their bad odor. The Samaritan gave nothing but wine and oil to the wounded man. It is nothing other than the ointment. It healed the wounds, for "love covers a multitude of sins" (1 P 4:8).- Gospel of Philip

The Gospel is love. If you kill (perceived enemies) you are not of love, but the ignorance of it. A son of God would die before killing.

 

[CohenDavidson]

The Catholic church (through Papal) did the same. Gnostics, Cathers, Heretics, Witches. It's called ignorance of the Gospel truth (jesus taught). It's why Jesus said teach the "Gospel", not the Bible. Catholics taught/followed the Bible.

He who has knowledge of the truth is a free man, but the free man does not sin, for "He who sins is the slave of sin" (Jn 8:34). Truth is the mother, knowledge the father. Those who think that sinning does not apply to them are called "free" by the world. Knowledge of the truth merely makes such people arrogant, which is what the words, "it makes them free" mean. It even gives them a sense of superiority over the whole world. But "Love builds up" (1 Co 8:1). In fact, he who is really free, through knowledge, is a slave, because of love for those who have not yet been able to attain to the freedom of knowledge. Knowledge makes them capable of becoming free. Love never calls something its own, [...] it [...] possess [...]. It never says,"This is yours" or "This is mine," but "All these are yours". Spiritual love is wine and fragrance. All those who anoint themselves with it take pleasure in it. While those who are anointed are present, those nearby also profit (from the fragrance). If those anointed with ointment withdraw from them and leave, then those not anointed, who merely stand nearby, still remain in their bad odor. The Samaritan gave nothing but wine and oil to the wounded man. It is nothing other than the ointment. It healed the wounds, for "love covers a multitude of sins" (1 P 4:8).- Gospel of Philip

The Gospel is love. If you kill (perceived enemies) you are not of love, but the ignorance of it. A son of God would die before killing.

It has been said that the most misunderstood page in the Bible is the one dividing the Old and New Testament...