CohenDavidson
Member
Today our society is filled with many "churches". Many uninspired men have started their own churches and put their own twist to it. Considering 1 Corinthians 1:10-17, this is wrong. Thoughts on the matter?
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Sin of Denominationalism
- Thread starter CohenDavidson
- Start date
What, specifically are you saying is wrong? That its wrong for people to hold opinions? That its wrong to be inspired? Its wrong to be in a church? What specifically is your point?
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Obviously, Jesus Christ intended that there be only one Church, not thousands, all teaching different doctrines. So what do you propose we should do about it?
JoshuaTree
Flowers are red?
Do you think heaven will be filled with only like minded souls? If so then yeah, all those "other" denominations are wrong. 
CohenDavidson
Member
I say we get back to the Bible and teach ONLY what the Bible says. ALL of the denominations have taken to or added to the word. This is strictly condemned Revelation 22:18-21. Its hard, but you can rule out all of the churches that do not do what the Bible says, this is pretty much all of them. The devil is clever. He has created these denominations to confuse the masses. We must find the first century church today. God would not have let it die out. It is still around today. Their are those who are still trying to avoid false doctrine. Romans 16:17
CohenDavidson
Member
Yeah, heaven will be filled with those few who have learned the truth. Romans 16:17Do you think heaven will be filled with only like minded souls? If so then yeah, all those "other" denominations are wrong.
JoshuaTree
Flowers are red?
Are those few the 144,000?
Skwim
Veteran Member
Wrong that the teaching of Christianity didn't turn out as Paul wanted? Don't see why. I don't believe anyone feels beholden to Paul's wishes. Thing is, I believe the divisions Paul speaks of are a product of the need of some to impose their thinking on others, and the vague and careless way the Bible has been written.
That many uninspired men have started their own churches and put their own twist to it is no more than an inevitable consequence of these two factors. Well, these, and the ability to break free of Roman Catholicism.
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CohenDavidson
Member
Predestination??? No.. The Bible obviously says that any who are willing to obey are able to be saved. Matthew 11:28-29
Phantasman
Well-Known Member
I don't follow men who have placed themselves as leaders of any religion. I used to, but once understood what Ekklesia meant, I quit. I have same spiritual and physical makeup as the Pope himself. I don't follow any man and do not expect them to follow me.
The elders of the true church help guide others to find the path on their own. Any man can receive the seed. The word of God is a seed. Luke 8:11
You are the fertile ground it needs to grow. This comes through the knowledge of the Spirit (capital S) that leads you. John 16:13
Don't let men argue the Spirit. See it yourself. It led me away from those who would pervert the gospel. Galatians 1:6-8.
When you see the truth, you will be amazed.
(2) Jesus said, "Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the All."- Gospel of Thomas
If you follow a man or men, you will wind up where they are going. This is not the "free" Christ is.
JoshuaTree
Flowers are red?
Can two people who disagree on what the bible says both be saved? If not then yeah, those "other" denominations are wrong.
JoshuaTree
Flowers are red?
CohenDavidson
Member
Paul is not the only one who spoke of division. Jesus spoke of it as well as John. It is clear that the apostles and Jesus were in accordance. It was not Paul's wishes that their be no division. It was Jesus's. He built one church as it states in Matthew 16:18. Paul was just following what Jesus said.
CohenDavidson
Member
On matters of doctrine and salvation...according to the Bible they cant. All denominations are wrong. Jesus Built a church and his church is the only one that the Bible speaks of. Matthew 16:18Can two people who disagree on what the bible says both be saved? If not then yeah, those "other" denominations are wrong.
JoshuaTree
Flowers are red?
No division in heaven between different denominations, right?
CohenDavidson
Member
Well the Bible says you must be part of his church to go to heaven. Ephesians 4:4 says that their is only one body. Christ is the head of that one body, or church. Colossians 1:18 He is also the savior of that one body. Ephesians 5:32. So according to the Bible, denominations will not be saved. Only the church started by Jesus. So yeah.. no division in Heaven.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Well, he pretty much says so in 1 Corinthians 1:10-17.
But, Matthew 16:18 only says
18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
Somehow, I knew that's what you were going to say. Personally, I think it is absolutely impossible to do what you're suggesting. To begin with, there are many, many denominations that will insist that they are teaching "ONLY what the Bible says." The problem is that there are numerous instances in which one passage of scripture appear to contradict another. Ideally, you have to take them all into account, but in the end, you're going to end up focusing on the ones that support what you personally believe the first-century Church taught, and kind of sweep the ones that don't quite fit under the carpet. I'll give you a few examples of what I'm talking about, but I hope you'll look at them merely as examples, and not make the mistake of zeroing in on any of them and trying to argue for your position. If you do, the whole point of your thread will be lost, and this will just turn into an argument about whose interpretation is right and whose is wrong.
So, some potential points of disagreement between even those churches that claim to teach "ONLY what the Bible says" are (1) Is baptism essential to salvation or not? (2) If it is, should infants be baptized? (3) If performed, must it be by immersion? (4) Does the bread and wine given at communion actually turn into the body and blood of the Savior or are they merely symbolic? (5) Is one saved solely by faith or are works also necessary? (6) Once a person has been "saved," can he lose his salvation?
I hope you get the picture, because if you don't, you haven't had a whole lot of experience debating people whose beliefs differ from yours. A knowledgeable person who has really studied the Bible can prove pretty much any position he wants to take on pretty much any point of doctrine he wants to debate. I didn't used to think that was the case. I was fairly confident that I could out-debate anyone on quite a number of different points of doctrine. I was confident because I knew the scriptures that "proved" my position to be correct. I found out right away, a long, long time ago, that the other guy had his bases covered, too.
Then there is the matter of how complete the Bible actually is. I don't know how much you know about how the canon itself has evolved over the centuries, but the scriptures you believe to be "God-breathed" are not the same as they were back in 200 A.D., or 909 A.D. or 1400 A.D. I'm not talking about a difference in translations. I'm talking about which books in the Bible have been added or removed, depending upon what the people who were calling the shots at any given time believed should be included. And have you ever noticed that, when you are reading one of the four gospels, for instance, conversations between Jesus and his disciples seem to appear out of nowhere. Oftentimes, there's no real background given as to what's really happening, and you feel as if you're interrupting a conversation already in process. You wonder, "How did they get on this subject, anyway?" Finally, at the end of John, we are told that Jesus Christ said and did so many things during His ministry, that if they had all been written down (which obviously they weren't) they would more than fill all of the books in the world. That's a huge amount of information we simply don't even have -- information which, if we did have it, might very well be able to answer the six questions I asked in my second paragraph. I just think there are a whole lot of issues that you probably haven't really given much thought to.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
That makes it sound like we're going to be given a 100-question multiple-choice test, and only the individuals who get 100% of the answers right are going to be saved. Now if there is one thing the Bible doesn't teach, it's that!
Do you have a problem with a particular denomination or do you think they're all bad? You've cast a pretty wide net.