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Shroud of Turin? Real, art or fraud?

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by Bob Mims, Dec 9, 2017.

  1. Bob Mims

    Bob Mims New Member

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  2. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    I'll vote 70% chance of real or at least beyond natural (supernatural). Analysis seems to show that no one can create all the attributes of the shroud in a facsimile even today and especially with 13th century technology.
     
  3. Stanyon

    Stanyon WWMRD?

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    I am pretty sure they debunked that specific shroud years ago, apparently there was more than one.
     
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  4. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    "Analysis"
     
  5. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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  6. Father Heathen

    Father Heathen Veteran Member

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    Already been debunked as a forgery a long time ago, and not a very good one.
     
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  7. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Forgery, fraud, whatever you want to call it. Accurately dated to roughly the time of when it was found. Now that is denied by certain testers that went back on their word. Reproduced with techniques available from that time. What else do you need?

    "Art" is largely in the eye of the beholder, that can be merely a side effect. If you can be moved by it even though it obviously is a fraud could still happen. If that is the case I guess you could call it art.
     
  8. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

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    A red herring... that's what it is.
     
  9. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    That's true. The fact that it is a fraud in no way debunks the Jesus story. What it does indicate is whether the faith of a person is strong or weak. A weak faithed person grabs onto talismans and amulets in desperate hope that their beliefs are true. They won't let go because they are afraid that they will lose what little faith that they have. Most Christians do not need to rely on frauds to believe.
     
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  10. Sapiens

    Sapiens Polymathematician

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    Then what is it that they rely upon?
     
  11. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    Quite often just the Bible. There is a reason it is called "faith". I no longer believe, but not due to a weak faith, but due to too many logical contradictions and a total lack of evidence. As an ex-Christian I still get irritated with people that believe proven hoaxes. They tend to make Christianity look bad, and the religion does not need any more help in that matter than it already has.
     
  12. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Historically, it was about loyalty ("being faithful to God"). It's only as evidence for God has been found to be lacking that the meaning has morphed into "belief without evidence."
     
  13. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    The intellect "I believe" the intellect "I don't believe" the intellect, I am agnostic.

    I actually can't tell you from the evidence it appears to be something in regards to the intellect *maybe but I am uncertain need more emperical proof like extinction!!!!
     
  14. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    I didn't know that the word had gone through those changes, though the references in the Bible to the word seem to indicate more of the present day use. Of course the meaning of no word is written in stone. Though in the past the lack of evidence may not have been so obvious.
     
  15. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    IDK. If not real, its one masterful work of art.
     
  16. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein I'm not deaf, I'm just a real bad listener
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    A work of art or maybe a fraud. Perhaps both.
     
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