Should Women be Ordained?

[Sola'lor]

My wife and I have had to deal with this a few times. Our families come from a denomenation that also believes this, and when we visit we attend church with them. Some churches call men only to the front of the church to pray at some point during the service - obviously as preists of their families. When my grandfather invites me to come with him, there is a tough call between integrity and love.

My wife and I agreed that it's too much to do the theological explaining for a group that we have no intention to change, so I just play along, praying for God's mercy rather than delighting in my manhood.

Our church lets women pray, give talks, hold leadership positions. They just don't hold the priethood.

 

[ChristineES]

I sometimes watch Joyce Meyer and find her to be a great speaker. I don't see a problem. If she can preach The Word, why shouldn't she.

 

[jamielynn]

I sometimes watch Joyce Meyer and find her to be a great speaker. I don't see a problem. If she can preach The Word, why shouldn't she.

i have to agree with this. joyce meyer has an amazing ability to teach, and anyone , man or woman, should not waste it if they have a talent this great

 

[Smoke]

I sometimes watch Joyce Meyer and find her to be a great speaker.

She really is. I find her religion ridiculous and her finances suspicious, and even I enjoy watching her sometimes. The woman knows how to hold an audience.

 

[spiritually inclined]

Maybe the Church thinks anything without a penis isn't holy enough to preside at its alters? You know, they say homosexuality has been very common among priests and bishops....:flirt:

My answer: there are many women who have demonstrated themselves capable of leadership in both religious and secular realms. I therefore would not support religious teachings barring women from ordination.

James

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Simple answer. Yes. I think one of the problems with the Abrahimic religions is their repression of women and allowing women into the clergy can only help to aleviate some of that.

 

[Charity]

Women have every right to be ordained and to be in the leadership roles in a church. Women have been the leaders in many churches for years, and they are also wonderful teachers.......

 

[Lucian]

In Christianity, I don't think women should be presbyters or bishops. Imagine calling a woman "father", it would just turn comical. I support the office of deaconess however. Transcending gender, I don't think it's anyone's "right" to be in an office, rather people make the sacrifice of being in their office if that's their destiny. It comes with a burden, it's not "cool, I get to be the boss!" Anyone who thinks that hasn't understood the meaning of the office and certainly shouldn't be in it, no matter what gender.

As for those churches which have ministers in a congregational manner, I can't say anything definite about them. And I don't know about other religions for certain. They do what they have to.

 

[sojourner]

In Christianity, I don't think women should be presbyters or bishops. Imagine calling a woman "father", it would just turn comical. I support the office of deaconess however. Transcending gender, I don't think it's anyone's "right" to be in an office, rather people make the sacrifice of being in their office if that's their destiny. It comes with a burden, it's not "cool, I get to be the boss!" Anyone who thinks that hasn't understood the meaning of the office and certainly shouldn't be in it, no matter what gender.

As for those churches which have ministers in a congregational manner, I can't say anything definite about them. And I don't know about other religions for certain. They do what they have to.

The Episcopal Church has both female presbyters and female bishops. They are called "Mother." The ELCA also has female presbyters. They are called "Pastor." The same is true of Presbyterians, Disciples, Methodists and the UCC, among others.

There is no such office as "deaconess." There is a diaconate. It is gender-neutral, and those holding the office are called "Deacon," regardless of what is or is not swinging between their legs. The Episcopal Church also has female deacons.

But you're right! Ordination isn't a right, it's a call. And I believe God calls without regard to sex.

 

[Lucian]

The Episcopal Church has both female presbyters and female bishops. They are called "Mother." The ELCA also has female presbyters. They are called "Pastor." The same is true of Presbyterians, Disciples, Methodists and the UCC, among others.

There is no such office as "deaconess." There is a diaconate. It is gender-neutral, and those holding the office are called "Deacon," regardless of what is or is not swinging between their legs. The Episcopal Church also has female deacons.

But you're right! Ordination isn't a right, it's a call. And I believe God calls without regard to sex.

Well, the Episcopals may not have deaconesses, I don't know since I'm European and speak from that perspective, but the Evangelical Lutheran Church has. Nowadays it's not even gender related anymore whether you are a deacon or a deaconess with the Lutherans, it's education! If you've been trained as a nurse, then you are a deaconess, no matter which gender, and if social science, then you're a deacon. The Eastern Orthodox call women deaconesses and men deacons (same as with Catholics), but they haven't restored the diaconate for women.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

So are women still specifically excluded from serving in the governing body of the Baha’i Faith, the Universal House of Justice?

Yes, and will remain so for the duration of the Baha'i Era (now a minimum of about 850 years more).

This is because it is so commanded in our scriptures, which are not subject to change by us!

It is thus not our doing, nor (arguably) even something we would choose to do if this were our choice to make. But it isn't, and so it remains.

It may well change with the next Divine Messenger when that time comes.

That said, please note three important points:

1. Service on the House of Justice is just that: service! Further, it's nothing that ANYONE can try to achieve--female OR male! This is because our electoral system, while fully democratic, doesn't have nominations, campaigning, or discussion of individual personalities; so there is no way to "run for office." Indeed, anyone who tried to do so would almost certainly NOT be elected! Nor do the elected members have any special status, powers, or priveleges whatever! They are merely there serving the Baha'i world, full time.
2. Also, it should be noted that our scriptures also award women prerogatives not given to men. Specifically women--ALL women, not just nine or fewer!--have absolute priority over all men for receipt of education!
3. Finally, in every area other than the House of Justice, Baha'is world wide do everything they can to promote the equality and advancement of women! Among other things, we've always been formal members of UNIFEM, the UN agency for promotion of women's rights. And those Baha'i organizations that do confer prestige, Hands of the Cause of God and Continental Counsellors--have and have always had women serving on them!

Best,

Bruce

 

[Peace]

Should women be ministers or priests? What do you think women have to offer religion?

In Islam women can be scholars and they can preach and call others for Islam, but they cannot be Imam (the one who leads muslims in prayer). They can lead women but not men.

 

[Theocan]

Yes, and that SHOWS man's bias on religion.

Women are allowed to be ordained to be apart of their religion like any other man.

 

[gnostic]

Does it say anywhere in the gospels that men are ordained?

I don't recall anyone in the gospels being "ordain". Were there rituals or customs of becoming apostles or disciples in Jesus' time?

The only time that even come close to being "ordained" is in the Acts, when they search for a new apostle to replace Judas.

 

[ChristineES]

Jesus Himself said that no man should call himself teacher, preacher, etc. Not men and not women. I am not sure but I think he meant that to mean that one person is not better than another. There have been plenty of women "in charge", in the OT (Judges) one of the Judges who ruled the Israelites was Deborah- a woman(my favorite example). Jesus taught women, too.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,
Personally have no idea as to why women have been left out by all religions. It was Buddha who reluctantly inducted women starting with his wife.
There have been women who have been enlightened in the history of human civilisation, surely.
Personally aside the gential organs there is not much to differentiate. We can find males in females and females amongst men and some are neither male or female. Am sure [those who understand rebirth] will agree that it depends on the individuals desire that decides his next birth.
However, the deciding criteria should be focused on enlightenment which should decide their induction and not MALE chauvenism. We already see of the BALANCE tilting in favour of women globally and the roles too shifting and won't be surprised if by the end of this century find the earth dominated by females.
Love & rgds

 

[Draka]

Friends,
Personally have no idea as to why women have been left out by all religions.

Women have not been left out by all religions. Only in the patriarchal religions do you see any question of bias against women. It wasn't always so, and it still isn't. The pre-existing matriarchal religions had priestesses and priests and the ones of today do as well.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Draka,
Thanks for that.
But am not aware of such matriarchial religions as such.
In Sanatan Dharma there has started a reversal of this trend by training women as priests of course there are enlightened women and very popular too.
Kindly enlighten me on martriarchial religions for my information besides as mentioned earlier; will not be surprised if the whole society turns matriarchial by another century.
Love & rgds

 

[Jordan St. Francis]

Maybe the Church thinks anything without a penis isn't holy enough to preside at its alters? You know, they say homosexuality has been very common among priests and bishops....

Now regardless if one is for or against female ordination, I do believe statements like the above indicate a grave violence our culture is perpetrating against gender. It's indicative of the kind of reductionism which says man and woman are just the exact same thing in different packaging. In otherwords, we are living in a time in which there is no recognized ontological difference between male and female.

If any one believes that the question of female ordination merely revolves around genitals, than perhaps you have not really sifted through the considerations on this matter occurring within the churches. It is a question of gender informing the vital and principal social, psychological and in some sense spiritual dynamic of human society. From a biblical perspective, it is that "male and female he created them".

The idea "human being" is an abstraction from gender. Maleness or femaleness are the immediate reality of the being. It is not merely accidental, not mere form, but part of the essential reality of every human.

For Christians of the catholic persuasion, this is not a question of a woman's ability to be a leader or an instructor of the Faith, (for she can be both). It is, for us, an ontological question. Priesthood is, for us, also an ontological state. That is, it involves a permanent change at the essential level of the person (his "being-ness"). This is why Pope John Paull II said it is "not within the authority of the Catholic Church to ordain women".

From the Catholic perspective it is not any more possible for the Church to ordain a woman to the priesthood than it is for a male to bear and give birth to a child. This is something the male can not do, but the female can do, yet does not imply any kind of inequality.

Let us say that attempts at female priesthood are seen along the lines of that Arnold Schwartzeneger movie "Junior". It gives us an interesting excercise in thought, but then we resume with reality.

If the priesthood, however, is seen merely in terms of community selected leader to speak on their behalf, then the question is set on different terms.

The Catholic priesthood, however, is seen in terms of a God-summoned servant. It is not seen as a human invention, a human response to God. The priest does not in this sense represent the community before God, for he does not represent their choice nor their will. To return to John Paul II, "it is not within the authority of the Catholic Church to ordain women". This statement implies something about the origin of the priesthood. Mainly, that it is not an instiution that is ultimately in human hands.

I guess the rules of the game are altered drastically depending on this:

Is the priest someone pushed up to the altar by his fellows? Or is he drawn up to the altar by divine command? Where lies the thrust? If you take the first, then the only real criteria is skill or ability. If you take the second, there is something of the question of a divine will and a limitation on that of the human one.