Should We Defend Iran Against An Israeli Attack?

[Jeremiah Ames]

I think Israel is a greater threat to world peace than Iran

Amen

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

That's going to make it way harder for America to do anything internationally, because no matter what, the world knows the next president may not honor treaties and back out of them and not make good on America's word.

I think the majority of presidents will honor treaties.

The word ‘honor’ is the key.

Therefore an honorable president will do the right thing.

 

[We Never Know]

I think Israel is a greater threat to world peace than Iran

I don't keep up with that. Could you explain why?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I think the majority of presidents will honor treaties.

The word ‘honor’ is the key.

Therefore an honorable president will do the right thing.

I agree. But will the next one be honorable? We don't know, and the rest of the world does tend to watch what we do. And with Trumpism still a thing, they may not be so eager to enter into treaties and agreements.

 

[Jeremiah Ames]

 

[Revoltingest]

Personally staying out of it seems to be in our best interest. We know the US will support Israel because of course they will. Israel is not the defenseless weak victim of the conflict but they also aren't definitively the baddie. If anything we should support peace talks but Iran and the US are already so diametrically opposed that our presence would only harm the peace talks.

The Ameristanian combination of belligerence & unwillingness
to negotiate with good faith & consistency is the one problem
in our power to directly solve. Alas, I see neither party wanting
to change this.

 

[Revoltingest]

Defend Iran how? Are you serious?

Serious question.
I know how most will feel, but exploring the question
is productive. Many don't question default assumptions,
& the hawkish group think needs to be challenged.

I say neutrality. Iran wants the USA dead; not that I buy into all the warmongering anti-Iran narratives in the media but they definitely don't like us. That much is clear.

Well, the US wanted Iran dead, & went so far as to
attempt destroying them using Iraq as a proxy. So
I'd expect simmering resentment to Ameristan, &
for them to see us as an existential threat. Note
that Hillary threatened to obliterate them.

But I've Iranian contacts, & don't hear that they want
us or Israel dead. They need economic freedom,
& the ability to strongly defend themselves & their
interests in the region.

 

[74x12]

Serious question.
I know how most will feel, but exploring the question
is productive. Many don't question default assumptions,
& the hawkish group think needs to be challenged.

Agreed.

But I've Iranian contacts, & don't hear that they want
us or Israel dead. They need economic freedom,
& the ability to strongly defend themselves & their
interests in the region.

Of course I support the Iranian people and more freedom there. However, I can't ignore the rhetoric and actions of the Iranian government against the US and others. They engage in human rights abuses against many of their own people. For example if you are Muslim and you wanted to be an atheist you could get in a lot of trouble. They support terrorist activities and proxy wars in Syria, Lebanon and Oman. They're expansionistic.

Well, the US wanted Iran dead, & went so far as to
attempt destroying them using Iraq as a proxy. So
I'd expect simmering resentment to Ameristan, &
for them to see us as an existential threat. Note
that Hillary threatened to obliterate them.

Oh no way ... the lady who gloated about killing Qaddafi? She would never ...

But seriously, I'm not trying to defend the actions of the USA; I'm just thinking about what is in our best interests and what isn't.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I say erect an immense dome, impervious to everything up to and including nukes, covering a huge circle that covers Turkey, Egypt, all the Asian -stans, the eastern end of the Mediterranean. That should include Iran, Iraq, Ethiopia -- anyway, you get it.

Then ignore the entire thing for 50 years. Then we can come back and tear the dome down and whoever's left, we'll give them another chance to join civilization.

(History suggests, by the way, that will be the Jews. I wouldn't object.)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I say erect an immense dome, impervious to everything up to and including nukes, covering a huge circle that covers Turkey, Egypt, all the Asian -stans, the eastern end of the Mediterranean. That should include Iran, Iraq, Ethiopia -- anyway, you get it.

Then ignore the entire thing for 50 years. Then we can come back and tear the dome down and whoever's left, we'll give them another chance to join civilization.

(History suggests, by the way, that will be the Jews. I wouldn't object.)

At this point, it may not be a bad idea. The wrong people take over, it can spell doom for many different people around the globe.
I too also wouldn't mind if it was the Jews. Even the ones who are hardcore orthodox tend to not bother others like the other Abrahamics do.

 

[Revoltingest]

Of course I support the Iranian people and more freedom there. However, I can't ignore the rhetoric and actions of the Iranian government against the US and others.

Don't ignore it. But understand it.
We engage in hostile rhetoric & we attack them covertly.
So we should expect them to respond in kind, & not
be so outraged that we're unwilling to pursue peace.
After all, negotiation is most important between enemies.

They engage in human rights abuses against many of their own people.

This isn't a reason to condone unnecessary war though.
We even have allies who abuse human rights, eg, Saudi
Arabia, Israel. Note also that we supplied WMDs to Iraq
to use against Iran. Oh, & we over-threw their government
in 1953. The moral high ground we do not have.

For example if you are Muslim and you wanted to be an atheist you could get in a lot of trouble. They support terrorist activities and proxy wars in Syria, Lebanon and Oman. They're expansionistic.

I don't want to live there.
But this shouldn't interfere with figuring
out how to co-exist peacefully.

But seriously, I'm not trying to defend the actions of the USA; I'm just thinking about what is in our best interests and what isn't.

It's in our best interest to avoid war in the region.
But it's also in the best interest of people there, ie,
there's more to good foreign policy than what happens
within our borders or to our soldiers. We need to be
less deadly towards others.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Whatever the U.S. does or doesn't do, an Israeli-Iranian war could be catastrophic for the region and affect not just the two countries but also neighboring ones such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the rest of the Gulf.

I hope it doesn't come to an armed conflict, for the sake of everyone in the region and especially the millions of civilians and innocent people who could feel the devastating effects of such. More people need to zoom out and consider that, regardless of whether they stand by Israel's side or Iran's, a war could result in significant sufferring and loss of life for both as well as their neighbors.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Odd that Israel would behave in such a manner
as to incentivize Iran becoming a nuclear power.
(That's Ameristan's job.)

I think you may be confusing grandstanding by an Israeli politician with actual Israeli intent.

In many ways, Iran is to Israel what the Soviet Union was to the US; a useful bogeyman as much as a serious threat. The threat was fairly easily contained most of the time, but the bogeyman was talked up to manipulate public opinion in various ways.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We need to be
less deadly towards others.

You'll put the CIA and some others out of a job if they aren't out there making our own worst enemies. You have any idea how boring the Cold War would have been?

 

[danieldemol]

Israel 'Ready to Attack Iran' as Defense Minister Says 'We Need to Take Military Action'


Israel 'Ready to Attack Iran' as Defense Minister Says 'We Need to Take Military Action'
Brendan Cole 12 hrs ago
Israel's defense minister Benny Gantz has said that his country is ready to attack Iran and that there must be a global response to the threat that the Islamic republic poses.

His comments come amid growing tensions following a deadly drone strike on an Israeli-operated tanker off the coast of Oman.

Israel, along with the U.S. and the U.K. have blamed Tehran for the attack on the Mercer Street last week that killed two people. Iran has denied involvement.

"Israel is ready to attack Iran, yes," Gantz told Ynet on Thursday.

"We are at a point where we need to take military action against Iran. The world needs to take action against Iran now," he added according to a translation of his comments tweeted by Ynet journalist Attila Somfalvi.

If two bullies wanted to bloody each others noses in the school yard I'd be grabbing popcorn, not jumping in on the side of one of them.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think you may be confusing grandstanding by an Israeli politician with actual Israeli intent.

I understand that threats & condemnations are often just rhetoric.

In many ways, Iran is to Israel what the Soviet Union was to the US; a useful bogeyman as much as a serious threat. The threat was fairly easily contained most of the time, but the bogeyman was talked up to manipulate public opinion in various ways.

The USSR was indeed an actual threat though.
We nearly went to all out nuclear war more than once.

 

[Revoltingest]

You'll put the CIA and some others out of a job if they aren't out there making our own worst enemies. You have any idea how boring the Cold War would have been?

The CIA acts under the direction of government.
They play a role in making enemies, but I give
Presidents & Congress more blame.

 

[Revoltingest]

If two bullies wanted to bloody each others noses in the school yard I'd be grabbing popcorn, not jumping in on the side of one of them.

Alas, many others would get involved too.
And we bear much responsibility for the situation after
creating Israel, overthrowing Iran's government in 1953,
& killing nearly a million Iranians by proxy (Iraq's attack).
We set the stage.
We should fix it.
But we won't.
Iran is the enemy, so they all deserve to die.
Hillary expressed the sentiment of this USA Israel chimera....
"...obliterate Iran"

 

[Secret Chief]

American military intervention in the Middle East? What could possibly go wrong?

 

[Stevicus]

One thing that seems unclear about this whole Iranian situation is, there has been this ongoing sense of urgency, such as indicated in the OP article. For years, we've been hearing about how much of a grave threat Iran is and worry about a possible war.

But our history with Iran is not a clean one. Reagan certainly didn't see Iran as such a threat, as he owed them big time for helping him to become President. He rewarded them further by trading arms for hostages.