Should We Accept Others As They Are?

[lunamoth]

Depends on the situation. If you stop enabling a person and cut them off from allowing them to do what it is that they are doing wrong, then you force a change. Whether that change is just that they don't take advantage of you anymore or if that wake up call forces them to start to either think or act for themselves, it IS a change brought about by a force.

My ex-brother-in-law was notoriously lazy and always found a way to mooch off of others. He would never clean up after himself, and why should he when he could always manipulate someone into doing it for him. I had the chance to live with him for a while and during that time I not only would not let him mooch off me, but made it quite clear to others not to let him do it to them. I forced the issue of if he didn't go out and look for a job and start pulling his own weight then he couldn't partake in anything for which anyone else paid ( and yes, that included food after a while since he was quite a glutton). He had to show an effort at the very least. When he realized that he couldn't have his way anymore and the only way to get anything was by my rules, he DID go searching for a job, he DID find one, turned out he was not only good at it, but liked it. He realized he was intelligent and could make do for himself without having to rely on anyone else. He grew up significantly and even started pitching in around the house to clean and do dishes without being asked. He turned completely around and, dare I say it, I can't help but feel responsible for the change in his direction and maturity. I'm proud of him, and what's more, he's proud of himself now.

I think what you did was refuse to take on his problem as yours, and to make a very clear boundary about what behaviors of his you were not going to allow to ruin your life. Yes, people can change in response to how we make our choices and what we allow them to do...but I think this is still about us setting our own boundaries, including not enabling bad behaviors. Eh, perhaps the distinction is not all that crucial.

But we do need to love people the way they are, even if we don't accept some (or many) of their behaviors. I love Booko's line for this: sometimes the best way to love someone is from a distance. You can't allow them to drag you down.

 

[Buttercup]

Depends on the situation. If you stop enabling a person and cut them off from allowing them to do what it is that they are doing wrong, then you force a change. Whether that change is just that they don't take advantage of you anymore or if that wake up call forces them to start to either think or act for themselves, it IS a change brought about by a force.

My ex-brother-in-law was notoriously lazy and always found a way to mooch off of others. He would never clean up after himself, and why should he when he could always manipulate someone into doing it for him. I had the chance to live with him for a while and during that time I not only would not let him mooch off me, but made it quite clear to others not to let him do it to them. I forced the issue of if he didn't go out and look for a job and start pulling his own weight then he couldn't partake in anything for which anyone else paid ( and yes, that included food after a while since he was quite a glutton). He had to show an effort at the very least. When he realized that he couldn't have his way anymore and the only way to get anything was by my rules, he DID go searching for a job, he DID find one, turned out he was not only good at it, but liked it. He realized he was intelligent and could make do for himself without having to rely on anyone else. He grew up significantly and even started pitching in around the house to clean and do dishes without being asked. He turned completely around and, dare I say it, I can't help but feel responsible for the change in his direction and maturity. I'm proud of him, and what's more, he's proud of himself now.

I can relate to your plight except my similar experience is with older teens.... I'm glad the situation turned out well for everyone involved in your case.

Still, you basically only answered the last question in the OP. What about the other questions?

 

[Draka]

To what extent, if any, should we accept people as they are without trying to change them?

Is it more important to accept people who are close to you as they are than it is to accept people who are distant from you as they are?

To what extent, if any, should you accept your son or daughter as they are, without trying to change them?

If a person is being true to themselves in such a way they do not infringe on the rights of others, are there any circumstances in which you should try to change them?

So PC here. So "nice". .......bullhockey.

We change people all the time. We all do little things to play another person into doing what we want in small changes. If you see a good friend or relation of yours that you know is intelligent and capable of much more than being a slacker with no direction and no purpose, do you just let them flail through life? What kind of friend is that? You encourage them, reprimand them if necessary, make them realize what they are doing to themselves and what they could be. You support them in getting off the ground and running in a new direction. You help to "change' that person into a more capable and responsible person. Is it wrong to change a person in such a way? No. At least not in my opinion as I have done that before.

I find that I am more accepting of people I don't know than the ones I do know. Why? Because I know them. I may know that someone I care about is having a rough time with their love life, or they have no care as to how they live their life and bum off people. Do I accept that? No. I try to help them become better than they are. I am there for them to learn from as much as they can learn from me.

Do you let your alcoholic sister drink herself into a stupor or do you have an intervention and try to get her to realize what she's doing to herself and support her in going to AA? Do you sit by and watch your best friend cut herself when she's had a fight with her boyfriend or do you push her to stop and try everything you can to get her professional help? Do you stand idly by while your cousin gets routinely beat on by his wife and he won't do anything about it or get help because he has such low self-esteem that he doesn't either doesn't care much about himself anymore or doesn't think he deserves to be treated any better?

There are tons of reasons out there to try to change a person. None of which have to do with political affiliation, sexual orientation, or whether they leave the toilet seat up or down. But to say that you should just accept people however they are is just wrong. Especially when there are so many things you can do to help.

People change all the time. Sometimes change is warranted and just needs a little help. Nothing wrong with that.

There's a little color coding to try to help differentiate what I was saying a bit. It came out as one long response to the whole premise of the OP. I wasn't really trying to answer each individual question as I was the premise as a whole. But I tried to color code to steer in the direction of where the answers pretty much lie. If that'll work .

Guiding is a lot of it. You may see your child or friend heading down a path of either inner or outer turmoil. You try to guide them as best you can to help turn themselves around with the least amount of trauma along the way.

I'm not saying that you can purposely change personalities or beliefs, but you can affect a change in attitude, demeanor, and behavior. The question one has to always ask themselves when doing this is if it really is in the best interest of the person involved. Would it help or hinder them? Is this being done for them...or for yourself?

My ex-bro-in-law had to grow up sometime. He had failed relationship after another and had no direction in life. I knew him well. He was a big, gruff looking guy with a big soft heart when you got him to open up. He just had no clue how to get by in life. He slacked through because he could. I knew he could be more, be better, and in order to do that he had to be cut off. He had to learn to stand on his own two feet. Did this change benefit others around him?...yes, of course it did. But it benefit him the most.

 

[ChristineES]

Saying that you accept everyone sounds nice until you add into the equation of sociopaths, murderers, rapists, child molesters, armed robbers, and so on. If you say you accept every person on earth the way they are you are also saying that you accept people who may be like Jeffrey Dahmer or Adolf Hitler.

Draka told of her ex-brother-in-law and his laziness, by not accepting him made him become a much better person and not accepting him was a kindness to him. My husband used to be verbally abusive to me on occasion. I did not accept that and after a while I began to be assertive and whenever he started becoming verbally abusive I would walk away from him. In time, the verbal attacks stopped. I didn't have to nag him to change; I just let him know that talking to me like that was not acceptable and he got the point and changed himself.

 

[methylatedghosts]

I hate to contradictory, but it isn't always healthy to accept every thing about a person. If the person was an addict or something else, wouldn't that make you an enabler? I am not saying try to change the person, but let them know that there is something about them that is unacceptable to you.

But you could accept them for who they are still. Could you not say "I accept you for who you are even thoughI do not agree with this specific thing you are doing"

Acceptance is - at least I think - seeing that people are the way they are and that you can't do a thing about it unless they want you to help them do so. I can accept the druggie up the road because I know that I cannot change him. I accept him because he is a fellow human being. Accepting him is not necessarily also accepting his drug addictions. Accepting a person who smokes is not necessarily also accepting their smoking. Accepting a person who believes differently to myself is not necessarily also accepting their beliefs.

Can I change people? No. Not if they don't want to be changed. I can say "I think you need to do this and that differently" and they can take that on board or not but ultimately the change comes from themselves. And their changing or not changing is something you just accept - because there isn't any other way. If someone doesn't want to change - they wont.

 

[methylatedghosts]

My ex-brother-in-law was notoriously lazy and always found a way to mooch off of others. He would never clean up after himself, and why should he when he could always manipulate someone into doing it for him. I had the chance to live with him for a while and during that time I not only would not let him mooch off me, but made it quite clear to others not to let him do it to them. I forced the issue of if he didn't go out and look for a job and start pulling his own weight then he couldn't partake in anything for which anyone else paid ( and yes, that included food after a while since he was quite a glutton). He had to show an effort at the very least. When he realized that he couldn't have his way anymore and the only way to get anything was by my rules, he DID go searching for a job, he DID find one, turned out he was not only good at it, but liked it. He realized he was intelligent and could make do for himself without having to rely on anyone else. He grew up significantly and even started pitching in around the house to clean and do dishes without being asked. He turned completely around and, dare I say it, I can't help but feel responsible for the change in his direction and maturity. I'm proud of him, and what's more, he's proud of himself now.

Warning - badly infected with personal opinion:

My feeling is more that you are responsible for helping him to see something that you didn't like. His change was brought about within himself. He was given an option and chose. The actual change was done by him. He could have also decided to not change - but what could you have done about that fact then? Kicked him out of the house? He still wouldn't have needed to change unless he truly wanted to. When you gave him an option and said "if you don't do such and such there will be this consequence" he basically said "well I don't want that consequence so therefore I want to change"

His other option was "I don't want that consequence but I can't be bothered/don't want to change so I'll take the consequence"

Or something along those lines.

My point is - change comes from within but you can still accept a person for who they are regardless of whether or not you agree with their habits/actions/beliefs etc

 

[ChristineES]

But you could accept them for who they are still. Could you not say "I accept you for who you are even thoughI do not agree with this specific thing you are doing"

Under normal circumstances, I could. There are some people who do things that harm themselves (such as drugs, alcoholism,and similar things), but otherwise they are very lovely people. I can accept the person, and not what they are doing.

In extreme circumstances I don't think I could always-- If I found out that a man I trusted was molesting my daughter, for instance, I certainly could not accept that person any longer (I am very glad I never had to go through that, but think about the people who have!) I doubt I could ever accept someone who loves to torture people or harms people for fun. If someone repents and is truly sorry about a crime, I more than likely would forgive the said person.

About change-- No one can change another person. I would not try. I state my opinion to them but whether they listen is up to them.

 

[methylatedghosts]

If someone repents and is truly sorry about a crime, I more than likely would forgive the said person.

I know I'm being nit-picky but do you think that if you forgive someone you then accept them for who they are?

 

[ChristineES]

I know I'm being nit-picky but do you think that if you forgive someone you then accept them for who they are?

No, I am sorry but a person who harms other people and is not sorry for it I just can't accept the person at all. If they are sorry, then they plan never to hurt anyone again, so I can accept them then.

 

[Draka]

Here, I'll come out and just say it: No. I don't just accept all people for who/what they are. Why? Perhaps I'm just a b*tch.

 

[dawny0826]

Here, I'll come out and just say it: No. I don't just accept all people for who/what they are. Why? Perhaps I'm just a b*tch.

No, you're just honest and I personally, have much respect for that.

I posted a sugar coated response which is true, for the most part...I really do try to accept people...the people underneath the ideas and behaviors. I don't however, accept all ideas and behaviors.

You've posted honest examples of how sometimes, you have to try to encourage change when a person's behavior is unacceptable, even if you have to cut an indvidual off in the process.

Tough love is often necessary. This is life.

 

[jeffrey]

Interesting. For the people that have replied that you should accept people for what and how they are, how many of you truely do? Does accepting mean acknowledging their "faults" but then ignoring them because they are not like you or think like you? And to the people that try and change others, to who's standard and morality do you try and change them to?

 

[Buttercup]

Interesting. For the people that have replied that you should accept people for what and how they are, how many of you truely do? Does accepting mean acknowledging their "faults" but then ignoring them because they are not like you or think like you?

If you're accepting of someone's faults of course that doesn't mean you ignore them...it means you realize you aren't perfect yourself and take everyone 'as is' just as you hope people do you. And, the people who's faults are less annoying become your closest friends.

 

[jeffrey]

If you're accepting of someone's faults of course that doesn't mean you ignore them...it means you realize you aren't perfect yourself and take everyone 'as is' just as you hope people do you. And, the people who's faults are less annoying become your closest friends.

Ideally, yes. But can you honestly say you do what you stated? To be honest, I don't. If there is something about someone that I don't like, I don't want to know them. I don't mean handicapped. But maybe their attitude. Change people? Never. Last time I tried that, it got her killed.

 

[Buttercup]

Ideally, yes. But can you honestly say you do what you stated? To be honest, I don't. If there is something about someone that I don't like, I don't want to know them. I don't mean handicapped. But maybe their attitude. Change people? Never. Last time I tried that, it got her killed.

Of course I can honestly say I do as stated. Do you like 100% of every single thing your wife does? Your best friends? Your kids? Your parents?

It's hard to imagine you know perfect people and there's 'nothing' you don't like about them. I assume you're similar to me in that those you care for have characteristics that kind of bug you from time to time but you let them slide because their other attributes are so charming, funny, sweet or whatever it makes up for the few negative aspects.

 

[blackout]

Just because I accept a person for who he/she is...
doesn't necessarily mean it is healthy for me to be around that person.

Still I love them though... and wish them all the best.

Who would I be to try and "fix" them.
Better that I love the REAL them inside...
and express that to whatever capacity I am afforded the opportunity.

 

[Ever learning]

Interesting. For the people that have replied that you should accept people for what and how they are, how many of you truely do? Does accepting mean acknowledging their "faults" but then ignoring them because they are not like you or think like you?

I do accept people for who and what they are. Acception means beeing aware of their "faults"(or mine) but not ignoring them. That is of course easier done with people I do not have a personal relationship with.

I also belive that it is a waste of time to try and change people. I can only change myself.

 

[jeffrey]

Of course I can honestly say I do as stated. Do you like 100% of every single thing your wife does? Your best friends? Your kids? Your parents?

It's hard to imagine you know perfect people and there's 'nothing' you don't like about them. I assume you're similar to me in that those you care for have characteristics that kind of bug you from time to time but you let them slide because their other attributes are so charming, funny, sweet or whatever it makes up for the few negative aspects.

I never stated I know perfect people, quite the contrary. Most people I find to be full of themselves of how they want to be and what they are in reality are quite the opppisite. Take this forum and the internet as a whole. Most of them are false. It is so easy to be something you are not. Like honest. The "Ideal" of accepting people as how they are is a great concept, but few acctrually do this. I'm 50, and at the top of my head I can think of 2. The people I "accept" are few and far between. Hey, I'm honset. So is Draka. Trying to be something you are not is easy to type, but living it is reality.

 

[Buttercup]

The "Ideal" of accepting people as how they are is a great concept, but few acctrually do this.

What's your definition of accepting people as they are?

I'm 50, and at the top of my head I can think of 2. The people I "accept" are few and far between.

But, that's you. Doesn't mean everyone else only "accepts" two people. Some of us are more easy going and not so judgmental perhaps?

Hey, I'm honset. So is Draka. Trying to be something you are not is easy to type, but living it is reality.

And we're not honest? What are you trying to say?

 

[jeffrey]

What's your definition of accepting people as they are?
This is not hard.

But, that's you. Doesn't mean everyone else only "accepts" two people. Some of us are more easy going and not so judgmental perhaps?
What does easy going have to do with reality? Judgmental? Me thinks you are the one being judgmental, lol.
You can agree with this or not. People try to be something they are not. The older you get, the less 'Ideals" you have and the more "reality" you have.
So many people have let me down by believing in them. Most people are full of S***. I don't know you well enough to as you say 'Judge" you. But if what you type is what you truly believe, you are one in a million. And more power to you. And we're not honest? What are you trying to say?

Only you can answer that.