Should Spanking Your Children Be Illegal?

[yossarian22]

On shows like Nanny Detective and Nanny 911 the parents are usually taking something to their rear and getting nothing done.

:areyoucra
Because reality TV perfectly models reality .

Nobody has demonstrated whether spanking has either a detrimental or positive effect on a child's health, be it physical or psychological. Its a matter of opinion until an actual experiment is done.

 

[dawny0826]

And when the spank becomes a paddle? A punch? Where do you cut off the line? Some parents can kick their kids without acting rage, although from my observations most people who even spank their kids are doing it out of stress and wave it off as "proper punishment."

I've worked with some pretty bad kids before [not the monsters you see on television hitting their parents, but close to it] and I never had to use physical force. In fact, if I did I probably would have been fired and sued. My taking a child's privileges away for 30 minutes was 90% effective. I did the same to my brother and sister when they were younger and got about the same results.

Do you have children? Are you in the position right now where you're responsible for the behavior, health and overall well being of little ones?

I mean you no disrespect at all, in fact, I'm probably long overdue in communicating to you that even though we have very different political views, I have a great respect for your intelligence and have always appreciated your posts.

So, without trying to "sound" rude...I ask...who are you to tell me how to raise my children? If you were to support legislation making spanking illegal, you're infringing upon my rights as a parent.

In truth, caring for someone else's child for a short period of time is completly different than having your own children that you're fully responsible for. I would never correct another's child in the same manner that I would my own. But I guess this is neither here nor there.

I think it's unfair to make assumptions about the motives behind why parents choose to spank their children.

I don't enjoy spanking my daughters at all and fortunately, rarely have to do so but if a spank on the rear is what it takes to ensure that my daughter doesn't repeat a behavior that is negative and positively harmful to herself..I feel I've done what's in her best interest and would be failing her if I turned the other cheek and coddled her.

Let me give you an example. We keep the electrical outlets covered with plastic plugs. But there are several sockets in the house that are used regularly, you know they're used for fans, lamps, appliances, etc. My children know they are not to get near an electrical outlet nor are they to touch one.

Ruthie, my three year old, while I'm dressing her older sister...decides she's going to try to plug in a fan...I immediately popped her butt, after giving firm warnings. She heard my firm "NO" and kept right on moving towards the fan...after a second firm "NO"...with me standing right beside her...she still proceeded to try to plug the fan in.

I would rather her deal with a moment of shock and embarassment from a pop on the rear to get her attention. sp she knows Mommy means business and the outlet is off limits, than for her to receive an actual electrical shock.

NEVER have I raised my voice to my children or spanked them have I not explained to them AFTER the fact, WHY Mommy spanked them or raised her voice. And we always tell our girls that we love them afterwards and explain why their behavior warranted a spanking or a scolding.

Though my initial attempts when correcting my children are always to use a positive reinforcer or use a negative reinforcer (time out, taking a toy away, etc.)...the truth is...it isn't always practical to reason with a six and three year old. There are times, even though I prefer non-physical forms of discipline...a spanking is necessary.

I hate it but I LOVE them and want for them to be the best that they can be in life. There's a balance.

Does this make any sense at all?

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Do you have children? Are you in the position right now where you're responsible for the behavior, health and overall well being of little ones?

I mean you no disrespect at all, in fact, I'm probably long overdue in communicating to you that even though we have very different political views, I have a great respect for your intelligence and have always appreciated your posts.

So, without trying to "sound" rude...I ask...who are you to tell me how to raise my children? If you were to support legislation making spanking illegal, you're infringing upon my rights as a parent.

In truth, caring for someone else's child for a short period of time is completly different than having your own children that you're fully responsible for. I would never correct another's child in the same manner that I would my own. But I guess this is neither here nor there.

I think it's unfair to make assumptions about the motives behind why parents choose to spank their children.

I don't enjoy spanking my daughters at all and fortunately, rarely have to do so but if a spank on the rear is what it takes to ensure that my daughter doesn't repeat a behavior that is negative and positively harmful to herself..I feel I've done what's in her best interest and would be failing her if I turned the other cheek and coddled her.

Let me give you an example. We keep the electrical outlets covered with plastic plugs. But there are several sockets in the house that are used regularly, you know they're used for fans, lamps, appliances, etc. My children know they are not to get near an electrical outlet nor are they to touch one.

Ruthie, my three year old, while I'm dressing her older sister...decides she's going to try to plug in a fan...I immediately popped her butt, after giving firm warnings. She heard my firm "NO" and kept right on moving towards the fan...after a second firm "NO"...with me standing right beside her...she still proceeded to try to plug the fan in.

I would rather her deal with a moment of shock and embarassment from a pop on the rear to get her attention. sp she knows Mommy means business and the outlet is off limits, than for her to receive an actual electrical shock.

NEVER have I raised my voice to my children or spanked them have I not explained to them AFTER the fact, WHY Mommy spanked them or raised her voice. And we always tell our girls that we love them afterwards and explain why their behavior warranted a spanking or a scolding.

Though my initial attempts when correcting my children are always to use a positive reinforcer or use a negative reinforcer (time out, taking a toy away, etc.)...the truth is...it isn't always practical to reason with a six and three year old. There are times, even though I prefer non-physical forms of discipline...a spanking is necessary.

I hate it but I LOVE them and want for them to be the best that they can be in life. There's a balance.

Does this make any sense at all?

This makes a lot of sense and i agree 100% dawny. You'd make a great mum.

 

[McBell]

This makes a lot of sense and i agree 100% dawny. You'd make a great mum.

What is she now?
Chopped liver?

 

[yossarian22]

What is she now?
Chopped liver?

Diced liver

 

[Reverend Rick]

All these folks who want to intrude into our homes had better tread lighter.....

How would they feel if we passed a law that said you had to spank your child if they came home with an unsatisfactory report card?

Some folks have an agenda. Push comes to shove it could backfire on them.

 

[sandandfoam]

All these folks who want to intrude into our homes had better tread lighter.....


Some folks have an agenda. Push comes to shove it could backfire on them.

Does this also apply to those who would like to step into the bedrooms of homosexuals, don't like gay marriage etc. etc.?

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

Any debate regarding child-raising and power struggles is guaranteed to challenge our deeply-held beliefs, for better or for worse. That said, however, I'm afraid I have to start with what I consider to be the single worst post in this thread so far:

Peh, an obervational study. It means nothing.

I'm sorry, yossarian, but we need to take a hard look at what this says. Simply put, science means nothing. I'm very sorry, but when beliefs are put on a higher pedestal than science, I have very little respect for those beliefs, no matter what the arena. (Anybody debating with me in the Religious Debates has probably already figured this out!)

Here's the thing. The social sciences are the least accepted of all the sciences, NOT because of their methods or process, but because of their conclusions. When we hear that humans share a common ancestry with not just apes, but pretty much the entire rest of the Animal Kingdom, many people choose not to accept the truth. When we hear that homosexuality is innate, unchangeable, and lifelong, many people choose not to accept the truth. When more than one study comes along and states beyond a reasonable doubt that spankings harm children, many people choose not to accept the truth. Thank god science is no respecter of our beliefs. In fact, sometimes science is the very medicine we have to demolish beliefs that need to be demolished.

wrong, wow are you so wrong. It does not lead to hitting your wife, wow. i cannot believe you even said that. Wow....

Do you have a source to support this?

I'm still not convinced spanking should be illegal. However, at the beginning of this thread I was leaning toward being against spanking, but I wasn't sure. Now I'm sure. Reading the defenses of spanking, I see nothing that makes any sense to me; reading the criticisms of spanking, I see a lot of sense.

If you're opposed to violence (and I am), how can you think violence is a good way to bring up children? Should have been obvious all along, but thanks to all the posters both pro and con, who each in their own way helped to clarify this for me.

MB, I echo your sentiment.

From the anti-spanking crowd, I have heard some appeals to belief (which, obviously, I have used as well), but I have also seen references to research and brute facts.

From the pro-spanking crowd, I only hear "we should," "it is just fine to," etc. value claims, without a shred of evidence to back it up. Brace yourselves, guys, because I'm going to say something that WILL hit some of you the wrong way: All these stories about how spankings supposedly didn't harm you carry very little, if any weight, for two reasons:

(1) Anecdotal evidence is a tiny drop in the bucket at best and completely unreliable at worst. Don't get me wrong, I trust you guys to attempt to say the right thing, so it's not that. But nobody, myself included, can possibly be free of all biases and prejudices. Personal stories, I hate to say, are not immune from this.

(2) How do you really know that spankings didn't harm you? How can you be absolutely sure that an act that is deliberately designed to hurt you in the short run didn't harm you in the long run? Lots of short runs added up equate to a long run, you know.

Children are not dogs.

How to raise children is up to the parents. All I can say is this; my grand father was raised with spanking, my father was, I was, my children were.

It's been my experience that it works. The kids don't end up affected by it other then that they learned at an early age not to do certain things. When they get older, the fact that certain things are wrong is already instilled, and they then start to understand why things are wrong, and that doing them will entail consequences.

BUT, if you don't want to use it, your right. Just keep your ideas for raising children out of everyone else's home.

Ooh boy. The irony meter just exploded.

The Big Bad Liberals use this line to defend inherently harmless behavior that some may find offensive, but they will not dare do so for actions that are proven to be harmful.

Is the quoted text to say that for social conservatives, the reverse is true?

Bottom line: I'm not yet in favor of the law mentioned in the OP. For now I believe it's overkill, and if spankings are really that bad, we need enough studies and research to prove this. To write such a law, the burden would lie completely with the anti-spanking crowd. But I have yet to see a shred of OBJECTIVE evidence supporting the humane use of spankings.

Oh and one last thing: What has the pro-spanking crowd to answer to my charge that spankings may well be inherently pedophilic?

 

[yossarian22]

I'm sorry, yossarian, but we need to take a hard look at what this says. Simply put, science means nothing. I'm very sorry, but when beliefs are put on a higher pedestal than science,

An obervational study shows nothing in the slightest, especially in the social sciences. It does not prove causation in the slightest; many experiments are needed to show causation. Few people seem the grasp the difference between an obervational study and an experiment. I doubt an experiment can be conducted in adherence to any moral standards
It also appears you have not read my post, as I am totally neutral on this "issue" considering neither side has anything but anecdotes to support their claims.

 

[Mercy Not Sacrifice]

An obervational study shows nothing in the slightest, especially in the social sciences. It does not prove causation in the slightest; many experiments are needed to show causation. Few people seem the grasp the difference between an obervational study and an experiment. I doubt an experiment can be conducted in adherence to any moral standards.

Since when? :sarcastic Yoss, again, I am becoming convinced that it is not the methods of observational studies that you question, but their conclusions. And I admit, doing so is hard. It takes strength.

It also appears you have not read my post, as I am totally neutral on this "issue" considering neither side has anything but anecdotes to support their claims.

Um. I realize this has been a long thread, but objective evidence HAS been offered by the anti-spanking crowd. The pro-spanking crowd has not been able to do so.

And my charge of pedophilia is STILL going uncontested.

 

[yossarian22]

Since when? :sarcastic Yoss, again, I am becoming convinced that it is not the methods of observational studies that you question, but their conclusions. And I admit, doing so is hard. It takes strength.

What do you mean since when? Read a basic statistics book.
People are jumping to conclusions, though the fault is likely that of CNN (or whatever news agency reported it). Here is what this study says
"There appears to be a correlation between spanking and antisocial behavior."
In no way can causation be infered from this.
All an observational study does, and ever will do, is determine the need for further investigation; investigation meaning experimentation.

Um. I realize this has been a long thread, but objective ]evidence HAS been offered by the anti-spanking crowd. The pro-spanking crowd has not been able to do so.

Yes, the anti-spanking crowd has shown that there appears to be a correlation between spanking and anti-social behavior. They have shown that there is causation. There may be experiments about this, but I have certainly never heard of any.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

Children cn be spanked to be taught a lesson. Works with some, not with all. The government has no right to intrude on this private matter.

 

[BFD_Zayl]

I was (murder) spanked as a (murder) child, and it didn't (murder) affect me (murder) in a bad way ....(murder)

 

[Don Penguinoini]

go die

 

[Captain Civic]

Ahhh! The PC monster is on the loose!

No, it shouldn't. I don't believe in excessive spanking, but those moronic psychologists that say "don't spank your child or they'll turn into a criminal psychotic" is a load of crap. It's negative reinforcement when a child does something wrong (and in my view, it shoudl only happen in certain situations) and teaches them when something is wrong.

They took any form of punishment out of school and look at the way kids act these days. Atrocious.

 

[methylatedghosts]

You are right, it differs from child to child, but this also depends on the childs growing up. If they (parents) suddenly started to spank there children, it wouldnt work, but if they did it from a young age, it wouldnt be so bad.

AND the age of the parent.

Like has been said - you ARE thirteen, and I don't mean to be offensive, but I don't think it should be you doing the spanking...

You are a child, and I think you should treasure that and continue being a child as much as you can and not concern yourself so much with the discipline of others. I don't feel like that should be your role.

But that's only my opinion

I see.
So no more jail time for criminals.
Because it tells children that it is ok to hold someone against their will.

No more fines for breaking the law.
Because it tells children that others can take your money.

No more making a child clean up their room.
because it tells children that they have to things they don't want to do.

No more grounding children.
Because it tells children it is ok to take away things they want to do.

Jail time - teaches that doing bad means privileges are removed.
Fines - that lower crimes can have a cost
Cleaning a room - (sorry, but I don't see how that relates to discipline) it DOES teach them that sometimes there are things you have to do that you don't want to. We ALL do.
Grounding children - just like jail time, it's removing privileges.
"swear jars" - just like a fine, lower misdemeanours have a cost.

But I still see more convincing arguments against spanking than for it.

I'd like to add that if you're not spanking to hurt them, then why not grab them firmly by the arm instead? It seems to me that it'd have more effect.
If you grab them by the arm and hold them until they listen to you as to why you had to stop them doing something as opposed to a pat on the bum that almost hurts seems more effective to me.

 

[Don Penguinoini]

AND the age of the parent.

Like has been said - you ARE thirteen, and I don't mean to be offensive, but I don't think it should be you doing the spanking...

You are a child, and I think you should treasure that and continue being a child as much as you can and not concern yourself so much with the discipline of others. I don't feel like that should be your role.

But that's only my opinion

If you think about it, my point is worth more. I am a child, i am hte one being spanked, so i know what it feels like and how to react, and how others react. I am of the younger generation, closer to Mister_T's point (OP)

 

[madhatter85]

I need not say any more.

 

[McBell]

If you think about it, my point is worth more. I am a child, i am hte one being spanked, so i know what it feels like and how to react, and how others react. I am of the younger generation, closer to Mister_T's point (OP)

really?
What an amazing thing!
Please be so kind as to let the forum know how I reacted when i was spanked.
While you are at it, why not tell the forum the reactions of my children as well.

 

[methylatedghosts]

If you think about it, my point is worth more. I am a child, i am hte one being spanked, so i know what it feels like and how to react, and how others react. I am of the younger generation, closer to Mister_T's point (OP)

Conversly, the rest of us WERE children, we are now adults. We have the experience already of being spanked or not. We got one up on ya bud!