• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Should Spanking Your Children Be Illegal?

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
Then again OTOH why do I have to wrangle and negotiate with a __ year old for 3 hours just to get you to do something I want you to do? That's a slight problem in my book anyway. Why is it that it takes 3 hours for you to get your toys out of the middle of the floor? Why did I have to negotiate that with you? Why can't I issue a command and get it done without taking the whole day to get through to you? I don't have all day to spend on that. Maybe I have other kids who need my attention as well, and I can't devote that kind of time trying to figure out why you're having such an issue with doing what I say.

Why? Because it only happens when the child isn't used to that kind of treatment. Of course there are "teething problems" when you change tactics and it isn't an overnight thing. But soon enough they'll learn several things.

You do not back down
It's pointless to argue
They'll lose half a day of play if they're too busy arguing it
You demand respect
Your requests are non-negotiable

Sure you could give em a whack on the bum, but that doesn't actually teach a whole lot from my perspective. To me, a spanking basically says "Ugh, I can't be bothered. I don't have the patience to deal with this."

Mestemia said:
However, do you think they will air this episode:News flash! Reality TV shows won't solve every crisis! One family found out the hard way, when their wacky kid set fire to the family home -- after appearing on the TV show "Supernanny." Burn!

Supernanny Jo Frost -- who appears on both British and American versions of the show -- visited Paul and Susan Young and their five children in 2005 in their UK home. Frost attempted to help the Youngs tame their rambunctious boys, all under age 11, but mom said that appearing on the show made the kids behave worse and play up to cameras.


The fire appears to have been started by 3-year-old Joel while he was home with mother Susan, and his siblings were in school. Damage to the home was so severe that the family was forced to move into a hotel. Is "Extreme Makeover: Home Edition" casting?!

The fire started in the kitchen, said Essex police officer Terry Hutton. As Young attempted to put the fire out, "the little boy went through the dining room and set fire to the curtains,"

What this article leaves out is whether or not Supernanny was actually finished with the course. She does have an "observation" day where she does nothing but watches them without getting involved. Most kids WILL play up to cameras. And WHY was the child able to get hold of something to start a fire! And WHY couldn't mother let the child play somewhere where she could keep an eye on him. It's all fine and dandy to blame Joe Frost, and say it's her fault, but she didn't give him the matches to begin with! Not only is that poor parenting, but that's poor safety management. These parents obviously needed help and they saw that, but to blame the person that has come to help them is ludicrous.

All children will continue to push the bounderies. All children test their parents. Just because Jo Frost leaves doesn't mean that these children are miraculously turned into angels that never go over the line, and it's nonsense to expect that. In fact, I saw a show where she had to return to a family because the parenting reverted back to their old ways and the kids were running rampant again. But that's not the fault of the children!

EDIT: You could be right, they probably wouldn't air that episode.

Unless you take it from a slant of:

"This is what you SHOULDN'T be doing"
"You really should do XXX"
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
You spank your kids for crying?

Yeah that doesn't make any sense. I always cried after getting a spanking, because it hurt. If my dad continued to spank me because I was crying he would be spanking me all day. To spank a child for crying is IMO just plain wrong as if you spank them, even if it doesn't hurt, they are going to cry. To continue spanking them for that is just ludicrous.
 

MoonWater

Warrior Bard
Premium Member
Not only that, but it is teaching them that showing emotion is a bad thing. And that makes me sad

It's also psychologically(and in extreme cases physically) damaging as they would be keeping everything bottled up inside. And I have first hand, second hand, possibly even third hand experience with how unhealthy that can be.
 

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
So, madhatter, do you spank your kids for crying? :p

Have we given sufficient reason for you not to? :p

But seriously, I am not saying you're a bad person (because I honestly believe otherwise) but I'm saying I'm against the idea of spanking, and this is one of the reasons why.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
If i spank them and they cry, i will tell them "Shush or i'll really give you something to cry about"


:eek:

I truly hope you do not have children then. :no:

That's disgusting to threaten them with violence or something else to get them to stop crying. Crying to a spanking is natural and normal response.

Disgusting that you would actually think of this. :areyoucra
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
:eek:

I truly hope you do not have children then. :no:

That's disgusting to threaten them with violence or something else to get them to stop crying. Crying to a spanking is natural and normal response.

Disgusting that you would actually think of this. :areyoucra

the point of this excersize is to make them know that crying does them no good and that they have to take responsibility for thier actions, This would not work on an infant or a child of an unreasonably young age.

All discipline should be given with love at the same time.
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
So, madhatter, do you spank your kids for crying? :p

Have we given sufficient reason for you not to? :p

But seriously, I am not saying you're a bad person (because I honestly believe otherwise) but I'm saying I'm against the idea of spanking, and this is one of the reasons why.

I understand why peopel are against spankings, but, the reality is that not all children respond to the same punishment. I didn't care abotu time outs or groundings, i didn't care about what she said, the only way i would listen to her is from spankings. Some children don;t care about spankings, and they care more about not being embarassed in public. or they care more about not disappointing thier parents.

It honestly depends on the child, I like the satirical statements i made before, yes it is an overeggageration, but not by much. I would never "beat" my kids in the punch or kick or hitting sense. I would "beat thier bottom" as my grandmother would say.

the point is that children NEED discipline, some need more discipline than others, and some need harsher discipline. it should fit the crime and should give the proper response from the child.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
the point of this excersize is to make them know that crying does them no good and that they have to take responsibility for thier actions, This would not work on an infant or a child of an unreasonably young age.

Explicitly explain how spanking teaches them responsibility and that crying does not good. There is no proof but your own experience behind your statements. Spanking only teaches that it is okay to hit your children and others if they do something bad.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
it should fit the crime and should give the proper response from the child.

How does spanking fit 'the crime'? For instance, if they color on the wall with crayons should you spank them as a punishment? Do you even have any experience with children or child development?
 

methylatedghosts

Can't brain. Has dumb.
madhatter said:
All discipline should be given with love at the same time.

I'm sorry, but I think I should point out that there really doesn't seem to be much love behind a good slap on the bum! "I love you, but I'm going to hit you"?

It seems much more loving to me if you give them time by themselves to think about what they've done and that they should make their own conclusions as to what to do next and how to make it up.

madhatter said:
If i spank them and they cry, i will tell them "Shush or i'll really give you something to cry about"

But you only just gave them something to cry about....
 

Mercy Not Sacrifice

Well-Known Member
Wow. Dicey issue, this is. And I don't quite know where I stand here.

On the one hand, we have the sordid truth behind spankings themselves: Their short-term purpose is to physically, and most likely psychologically, hurt a child. Folks that's an awfully tough motive to justify, no matter how bad the little booger's crime. When we're talking about forcing one of the most vulnerable segments of our society to be physically and emotionally overpowered--because let's face it, spankings are all about power--there's no way to sugarcoat this: Vigorously defending the practice of spanking children can come across in the wrong way.

However, there's a key point that I haven't seen raised yet. Perhaps there exists a case for spankings' being abuse of the child by the parent, but what about the reverse: instances where the child does the abusing, and the parent is the target? I am not referring to simple cries of attention or petty acts of disrespect, but rather, ongoing manipulating and bullying of parents who have gone through all the motions: trying all different forms of discipline, taking their child to counseling (if they can afford it--that's an entire issue in its own right), and standing up to them as best they can. A small handful of children are extremely aggressive and will bulldoze their way right through all these protective measures that their parents work so hard to build. Frankly, I believe the parents in such a case have a very solid defense for spanking such a child, even if this causes rather intense physical pain in the short run.

Even so, there is another point I have yet to see mentioned (apologies if it has): Other than changing a diaper or giving a bath (which usually only is for very young children), spankings are one of the very few instances where adults are legally permitted to make physical contact on or near a child's genitals. Very simply, this creeps me out. School administrators would be thrown into a maximum security prison for massaging a child's buttocks--which well they should!--but in many states, this same administrator can deliberately and intentionally strike this same rear end, and as long as certain circumstances align he will receive zero punishment himself. Why some schools are allowed to spank children in a so-called "civilized" society completely fails me. The same goes for parents--as long as the contact on or near the genitals is violent, it is permitted by the law. Keep in mind that none of this behavior is mutually consensual--a fundamental principle to sexual contact at any age. Somehow, spankings gets a free pass here. That, I do not understand.

So are spankings to a child's buttocks inherently pedophilic? Possibly, although I cannot conclusively state that they are. After all, we sit on our butts every day, and nothing is sexual about that. Same for when we take a shower and wash that part of our body. So perhaps, then, spankings come close to failing this test, but reasonable doubt might saves it here.

Now, then, for practical implementation. It was mentioned earlier in this thread that the UK (?...I may be wrong about that) has a law that permits parents to spank as long as no visible welts are made. I see such a law as a good start and a fair compromise for now. (Frankly, any parent who thinks that they have the right to give their kids welts deserves a visit from social services.) What next, then? I think we have to ultimately look at the inherent message of the spanking itself: "You do not have the right to physically defend yourself, no matter how unpleasant, painful, or disturbing this is." Folks, that is an *incredibly* powerful statement to send to a child. My thought is that no matter how bad the little rascal's mistake is, a parent *must* ask themselves if the circumstances warrant such a statement. My view is that it can be made *only* as an absolute last resort, after measures such as, but not limited to:

-Restructuring the child's physical environment (read: LESS TV!!)
-Parent's spending more time with their child
-Having the child get outside and exercise more
-Improving their study and work habits, if this is an issue
-Giving the child a reasonable level of choices
-Changing one's OWN behavior (Are you triggering the bad behavior in your kid?)
-The "Look"
-Time-out
-Loss of privileges, such as PS3 or weekend activities
-Grounding
-Trips to a licensed counselor

If ALL of that fails--which after having worked with kids for years now, I guarantee you it won't in 99% of cases--AND the licensed counselor says it's a good idea, then go ahead and spank. Yes I mean that; while it may hurt some feelings to say that parents should seek an outside opinion, I counter with all the arguments I have mentioned here against spankings. In short, when I say spankings should be a last resort, I mean an absolute, he's-about-to-seriously-hurt-someone situation, where *every single one* of the above tactics has been tried. And not a second before.

There. My encyclopedia post is written. :p
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
I think the spanking of children will eventually go the route of hitting your wife. The latter was considered an "impulse" emotion too that kept the family in line. It's only acceptable and "natural" because society deems it so. I would never imagine hitting my wife, for example.


[For the record I'm against the spanking of children. I only had it done to me occasionally and I couldn't tolerate it. My relationship with my parents only worsened.]
 

madhatter85

Transhumanist
I think the spanking of children will eventually go the route of hitting your wife. The latter was considered an "impulse" emotion too that kept the family in line. It's only acceptable and "natural" because society deems it so. I would never imagine hitting my wife, for example.


[For the record I'm against the spanking of children. I only had it done to me occasionally and I couldn't tolerate it. My relationship with my parents only worsened.]

wrong, wow are you so wrong. It does not lead to hitting your wife, wow. i cannot believe you even said that. Wow....
 

Smoke

Done here.
I'm still not convinced spanking should be illegal. However, at the beginning of this thread I was leaning toward being against spanking, but I wasn't sure. Now I'm sure. Reading the defenses of spanking, I see nothing that makes any sense to me; reading the criticisms of spanking, I see a lot of sense.

If you're opposed to violence (and I am), how can you think violence is a good way to bring up children? Should have been obvious all along, but thanks to all the posters both pro and con, who each in their own way helped to clarify this for me.
 

Mathematician

Reason, and reason again
wrong, wow are you so wrong. It does not lead to hitting your wife, wow. i cannot believe you even said that. Wow....

I didn't say anything like that. I was relating current social conditions to previously existing ones where physically punishing your wife was backed by similar arguments to the ones being presented today..
 
Top