Shoe is on the other foot: Prove there is not God.

[McBell]

It dont matter if you read it a hundred times this doesnt garauntee you knowing what it means so if you read it or not it makes no difference to me. When God is ready for you to understand then you will understand.

Case in point---Jack Van Impe knows scripture and memorises over 20000 verses yet knows nothing of the Gospel

Wonder where that leaves you?
I mean you make claims of verses that you do not present.
Makes one wonder if they even exist outside your mind....

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Okay i will start from here because maybe i have mixed you up with others. So starting over what is it that you are trying to say that prove that God doesnt exist

We haven't even gotten that far. I've still been trying to figure out what you mean by "God".

 

[AK4]

Wonder where that leaves you?
I mean you make claims of verses that you do not present.
Makes one wonder if they even exist outside your mind....

I dont make claims when it comes to the scriptures. I state facts. Not my problem he wont look up a simple verse. Does it matter to a bunch of atheists anyway? You guys dont believe the scriptures so whats the point?

 

[McBell]

I dont make claims when it comes to the scriptures. I state facts. Not my problem he wont look up a simple verse. Does it matter to a bunch of atheists anyway? You guys dont believe the scriptures so whats the point?

Until you verify that the verses you refer to actually exist, it is merely a claim on your part.

It is not HIS job to verify YOUR claims.
Since you refuse to verify your claims, you have lost quite a bit of credibility.
Though I know that that fact will not even slow you down from making even more unsubstantiated claims.

Does it matter?
Yes it matters.
You make a claim and then refuse to present that which would verify your claim.
Makes it look as though your claim is nothing but your imagination.
So it goes towards your credibility.

Most atheists do not believe in the Bible like you do.
Of course, my experience has been that atheists tend to know what the Bible says better than most Christians. So the point is that you are merely furthering discord towards the Bible by making claims of what the Bible says and then not presenting the exact verses.

Not to mention that it now looks like any claim made by you about what the Bible says is not worth a damn.
Seems to me that you are actually doing a better job for Lucifer than you are for God.
But that is just my opinion.

 

[David69]

AK4 Why dont you just give them the verses..

 

[AK4]

We haven't even gotten that far. I've still been trying to figure out what you mean by "God".

Heres the definition of God from the scriptures


1Jo 4:8 - ....for God is love.
Heres something interesting and lets starts from here

In the Old Testament, the words for love is, 'āhēbh, 'ahăbhāh. Basically it is a very simple word. It just means to give or I give. I love you... I give. That’s nice, that’s simple, good and profound. That’s spiritual love... I give.

In the New Testament, we have the word agápē. We have a little different explanation for that; a complex emotion arousing appreciation or delight in and desire for the presence of it’s object; as well as to please and promote it’s welfare.

Now, I got this out of the Concordant Keyword Dictionary, because it’s so much better than all the other dictionaries and Dr. Strong combined. I mean I’ve gone over definitions of this word, agapao and agape, for many hours and it’s really difficult to nail it down. Dr. Strong in his Exhausted Concordance, translates agape one way and then translates agarao the verb, differently, like it’s two different words.

I contended for so long with this thing of, aion and aionios and that no adjective can take on a different or greater meaning than the noun from which it is derived. Yet they take the word aion, which means an age, and turn it into eternity. It’s stupid, it’s grammatically wrong.

You don’t take the word hour and then when you say you work hourly, you mean yearly. No, it still means hourly. It doesn’t change just because you change it from a noun to a adjective or a verb, an adverb, or something else.

So now I can see some better distinctions. It, agape, is a complex emotion, arousing appreciation or delight in and desire for the presence of it’s object; as well as to please and promote it’s welfare.

Now here is the word phileo. We understand the word Philadelphia, the city of brotherly love - Philadelphia. It means to be fond of, responsive, affection based on approval and regard. That’s a little complicated, basically it’s this. God of love -agape, is a one-way street, God loves, He gives. It’s not based on whether the ones He gives it to, loves Him back.

While we were yet sinners, Christ died for us, right. Why? Because He loves us, “for God so loved the world.” That includes all these drug dealing, wife beating, God defying people. He so loved the world, did they love Him back? No, very few people love God back. It’s a one-way street... He loves. He’s the One that loves, not getting anything back for it, He loves.

But phileo love, is where two people are fond of each other and they’re responsive to each other. It has to do with affections, based on the approval of the one you’re giving out to, you see. Why are people friends? Because they reciprocate, right.

Bob and I go to lunch once a week. If we didn’t reciprocate in how we think and talk to each other and build up each other when we are down, then I think that would come to an end rather quickly.

Seriously, when you have a close friend, is that somebody that never shows you close affection? I don’t think so.

A close friend, a phileo, a friend that reciprocated, it’s a two-way street. Although God is agape, you would say that’s the ultimate. But it is not as intimate as phileo. All my life I heard this pyramid of love. At the top there was this agape, the ultimate. Is it really?

A couple of things, I have a very important note here: There are two kinds of love, for two kinds of people.

LOVE is what God is.

 

[AK4]

AK4 Why dont you just give them the verses..

Lol. I dont know it just amuses me. I guess i will so we can get passed this.

 

[David69]

Lol. I dont know it just amuses me. I guess i will so we can get passed this.

Might keep the wolves at bay! Lets move forth into the glorious light. :yes:

 

[AK4]

Does it matter?
Yes it matters.
You make a claim and then refuse to present that which would verify your claim.
Makes it look as though your claim is nothing but your imagination.
So it goes towards your credibility.

Let me comment on this first

Glad you said this. Tell me does this sound familiar with you atheists and such:

You make a claim and then refuse to present that which would verify your claim.

You guys: "We claim that the universe is eternal or self existing"

Me: "Where in the universe do we have any evidence of ANYTHING eternal to substantiate your claim?"

You guys [with the intent to (a) divert attention away from your claim and never present that which would verify your claim]: "We dont, but you are asking for special pleading" or (b) never address it at all and try to divert attention away from where you are supposed to present that which would verify your claim: "your argument makes no sense. It is on you to prove your God exists, not mine to prove that the universe is eternal or self existing"



Did we learn something here class? Double standard. Special pleading. Avoidance to present that which would verify your claim.

Now again the OP says

Shoe is on the other foot: Prove there is not God.

Well prove it.

So i reiterate. The only way to possibly prove there is no God is to prove that something in this universe is eternal/self existing/brought itself into existence. So present that which would verify your claims. If you cant it Makes it look as though your claim is nothing but your imagination.
So it goes towards your credibility

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Heres the definition of God from the scriptures


1Jo 4:8 - ....for God is love.
Heres something interesting and lets starts from here

I disagree with the idea that "love" is a valid definition of "God".

If you really do mean "love", then the word "God" is redundant. If you think there's more to God than just love, then it would help to expand your definition.

 

[AK4]

Here ya go

Douay Rheims Version Psalms 78:1-8 1 (77-1) <Understanding for Asaph.> Attend, O my people, to my law: incline your ears to the words of my mouth. 2 (77-2) I will open my mouth in parables: I will utter propositions from the beginning. 3 (77-3) How great things have we heard and known, and our fathers have told us. 4 (77-4) They have not been hidden from their children, in another generation. Declaring the praises of the Lord, and his powers, and his wonders which he hath done.


13:34 All these things Jesus spoke to the crowds in parables, and He did not speak to them without R672 a parable. 35 {This was} to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet: "I WILL OPEN MY MOUTH IN PARABLES; I WILL UTTER THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD."

I can hear it now "You took that Psalms verse out of context" or "that was God speaking there". Now before you guys try to argue these weak points do some homework first

 

[AK4]

I disagree with the idea that "love" is a valid definition of "God".

If you really do mean "love", then the word "God" is redundant. If you think there's more to God than just love, then it would help to expand your definition.

I stick to the scriptural definition. It says God is love. Yes that "love" is all encompassing. Going beyond what the scriptures say is God can lead to heresy. So now you have the definition plus i stated earlier about the fruits of God, you have your definition of what God is.

 

[AK4]

Most atheists do not believe in the Bible like you do.
Of course, my experience has been that atheists tend to know what the Bible says better than most Christians.

I agree, but the only association i have with being called a christian or with christianity is that Jesus is the Christ. Then again when you break down the doctrines and teachings of Christianity the really dont believe He was/is the Christ. So please dont lump me in with them. Tell you what heres a command that Christians dont follow that was directed to them and their religion

Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
I listened and followed that command.

So the point is that you are merely furthering discord towards the Bible by making claims of what the Bible says and then not presenting the exact verses.

There is nothing i could do to "mend" a discord that an atheist already has for the bible unless they were truly willing to have an open mind to what i presented from the scriptures [not just bibles because of the churches teachings and faulty translations is the reason many curse God anyway]

Not to mention that it now looks like any claim made by you about what the Bible says is not worth a damn.

Did it really look any better when i presented the stuff i did earlier that supported science? It matters not, when you show an atheist anything from the bible, the biasedness of their heart will not let them have nothing but discord for what you present.

Seems to me that you are actually doing a better job for Lucifer than you are for God.
But that is just my opinion.

Whew, thats a relief. Good thing lucifer is not a scriptural. Would have been a little worried if youd had said satan or the devil or even some demon.

 

[Enlighten]

I agree, but the only association i have with being called a christian or with christianity is that Jesus is the Christ. Then again when you break down the doctrines and teachings of Christianity the really dont believe He was/is the Christ. So please dont lump me in with them. Tell you what heres a command that Christians dont follow that was directed to them and their religion

Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
I listened and followed that command.

So, can I just clarify, you are saying you are completely without sin in your life? (highlighed in purple where I have drawn this conclusion)

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I stick to the scriptural definition. It says God is love. Yes that "love" is all encompassing. Going beyond what the scriptures say is God can lead to heresy. So now you have the definition plus i stated earlier about the fruits of God, you have your definition of what God is.

I can disprove that God easily enough:

- thesis: God is all-encompassing love
- love is an emotion
- emotions are posessed exclusively by sentient entities (note: "sentient" meaning entities that feel, not necessarily intelligent entities)
- sentient entities are limited in scope
- therefore, qualities of sentient entities are limited in scope
- therefore, emotions, including love, are limited in scope
- therefore, love is not all-encompassing
- therefore, the thesis is internally contradictory
- therefore, the existence of God (as defined in the thesis) is a logical impossibility
- therefore, God does not exist

 

[Walkntune]

I can disprove that God easily enough:

- thesis: God is all-encompassing love
- love is an emotion
- emotions are posessed exclusively by sentient entities (note: "sentient" meaning entities that feel, not necessarily intelligent entities)
- sentient entities are limited in scope
- therefore, qualities of sentient entities are limited in scope
- therefore, emotions, including love, are limited in scope
- therefore, love is not all-encompassing
- therefore, the thesis is internally contradictory
- therefore, the existence of God (as defined in the thesis) is a logical impossibility
- therefore, God does not exist

Thought I would share this definition of love I found!
Love is totally selfless and it is an act, not an emotion. We often mistake it for emotion because it is usually contained in strong emotions. But love is not an emotion&#8230;. love is creative action. It is the most creative act in the universe&#8221;.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thought I would share this definition of love I found!
Love is totally selfless and it is an act, not an emotion. We often mistake it for emotion because it is usually contained in strong emotions. But love is not an emotion…. love is creative action. It is the most creative act in the universe”.

Acts aren't all-encompassing either. If they were, then there would be no such thing as inaction.

 

[David69]

http://www.searchgodsword.org/desk/?query=re+18:4&translation=kjv&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en

Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
I listened and followed that command.

http://www.searchgodsword.org/desk/?query=re+18:4&translation=kjv&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=enhttp://www.searchgodsword.org/desk/?query=re+18:4&translation=kjv&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=enhttp://www.searchgodsword.org/desk/?query=re+18:4&translation=kjv&st=1&new=1&sr=1&l=en

I dont know what was said before hand but I take it God is speaking of the womb of life... within the very planet we staand on. where the basic cells reside, the building blocks for all life today?
Just a thought! There must have been different meaning for adam and eve being the first!!!

 

[Enlighten]

I dont know what was said before hand but I take it God is speaking of the womb of life... within the very planet we staand on. where the basic cells reside, the building blocks for all life today?
Just a thought! There must have been different meaning for adam and eve being the first!!!

This passage he is refering to is the fall of Babylon, so imo basically it's saying to avoid being caught up in sin.

Revelation 18

The Fall of Babylon the Great

1 After these things I saw another angel coming down from heaven, having great authority, and the earth was illuminated with his glory. 2 And he cried mightily[a] with a loud voice, saying, “Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and has become a dwelling place of demons, a prison for every foul spirit, and a cage for every unclean and hated bird! 3 For all the nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth have become rich through the abundance of her luxury.”
4 And I heard another voice from heaven saying, “Come out of her, my people, lest you share in her sins, and lest you receive of her plagues. 5 For her sins have reached[b] to heaven, and God has remembered her iniquities. 6 Render to her just as she rendered to you,[c] and repay her double according to her works; in the cup which she has mixed, mix double for her. 7 In the measure that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, in the same measure give her torment and sorrow; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as queen, and am no widow, and will not see sorrow.’ 8 Therefore her plagues will come in one day—death and mourning and famine. And she will be utterly burned with fire, for strong is the Lord God who judges[d] her.

 

[AK4]

So, can I just clarify, you are saying you are completely without sin in your life? (highlighed in purple where I have drawn this conclusion)

I never said that. It says "he who is says he is without sin is a liar". I still sin but i dont let sin rule me or compell me to sin.