Shoe is on the other foot: Prove there is not God.

[tumbleweed41]

Thought I would share this definition of love I found!
Love is totally selfless and it is an act, not an emotion. We often mistake it for emotion because it is usually contained in strong emotions. But love is not an emotion…. love is creative action. It is the most creative act in the universe”.

Not technically a "definition", but an opinion on love from former mental patient Emma Pierce in her book "Ordinary Insanity", where she excuses her husbands overzealous religious belief in beating her children as...
"He was their (the childrens) father, and if I gave them support against him, then anarchy would rule."
And a belief in submitting to any authority, wrong or right.
"I firmly believe that authority, lawful authority must be upheld at all times, even when in the wrong. There was a greater consideration; the consideration that law and order must prevail and a bad law is better than no law at all. A father, as designated by the Bible, had lawful authority over his children."

IMO, not the best source for an insight on "love".

 

[Walkntune]

Acts aren't all-encompassing either. If they were, then there would be no such thing as inaction.

So is this why we have free will and faith to take action???

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So is this why we have free will and faith to take action???

I have no idea what you're talking about now or how it's relevant to the discussion.

 

[AK4]

Acts aren't all-encompassing either. If they were, then there would be no such thing as inaction.

Have you ever heard of the act of doing nothing or how about this

Wu wei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Enlighten]

I never said that. It says "he who is says he is without sin is a liar". I still sin but i dont let sin rule me or compell me to sin.

You say you are different to a labelled Christian, every Christian is different, some are extreme some are rational etc. You said:

Tell you what heres a command that Christians dont follow that was directed to them and their religion
Re 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.
I listened and followed that command.

This was your reasoning for being different to Christians, everyone sins, Christian and non-Christian. So how can you be so sure that Christians don't follow that command yet somehow you do? This is my point, you said it so I'd like to know where your reasoning is coming from.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Have you ever heard of the act of doing nothing or how about this

Wu wei - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

And?

Love still isn't an all-encompassing action. I pointed out that inaction exists, but unloving actions also exist. Both show that love as an action is not all-encompassing.

 

[AK4]

I can disprove that God easily enough:

- thesis: God is all-encompassing love
- love is an emotion
- emotions are posessed exclusively by sentient entities (note: "sentient" meaning entities that feel, not necessarily intelligent entities)
- sentient entities are limited in scope
- therefore, qualities of sentient entities are limited in scope
- therefore, emotions, including love, are limited in scope
- therefore, love is not all-encompassing
- therefore, the thesis is internally contradictory
- therefore, the existence of God (as defined in the thesis) is a logical impossibility
- therefore, God does not exist

You are wrong here. and everything else that follows after the red is irrelevant because your whole thought on sentient is wrong



Main Entry: sen·tient
Pronunciation: \ˈsen(t)-sh(ē-)ənt, ˈsen-tē-ənt\
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin sentient-, sentiens, present participle of sentire to perceive, feel
Date: 1632
1 : responsive to or conscious of sense impressions <sentient beings>
2 : aware
3 : finely sensitive in perception or feeling

No considering that freewill is a myth [whether you believe it or not its true], where wouldnt God fit into this definition

 

[AK4]

This passage he is refering to is the fall of Babylon, so imo basically it's saying to avoid being caught up in sin.

but remember babylon was that woman which symbolises the church[es]. But babylon the great is not just about the churches, its about all the worlds teachings and stuff

 

[AK4]

You say you are different to a labelled Christian, every Christian is different, some are extreme some are rational etc. You said:



This was your reasoning for being different to Christians, everyone sins, Christian and non-Christian. So how can you be so sure that Christians don't follow that command yet somehow you do? This is my point, you said it so I'd like to know where your reasoning is coming from.

Basically its about not following their doctrines and teachings that when you break em down and place against scripture you will see how they either contradict, are anti-scriptural or unscriptural---sometimes all three.

For example, the scriptures teach the resurrection of the dead. The churches out there teach when you die you go to heaven or hell or for catholics purgatory. They thumb they nose at what Paul says is are only hope, the resurrection of the dead. So they thumb they nose at the resurrection. What does Jesus say "I am the resurrection". Do you see it? They deny Jesus because whats the use of a resurrection if you die and instantly come back life after you die and go to a heaven or hell.

Believe me i could go even further with just that one subject on the churches teaching.

 

[Enlighten]

but remember babylon was that woman which symbolises the church[es]. But babylon the great is not just about the churches, its about all the worlds teachings and stuff

Of course, it also refers to false teachings etc, hence I copied the full passage.

 

[AK4]

And?

Love still isn't an all-encompassing action. I pointed out that inaction exists, but unloving actions also exist. Both show that love as an action is not all-encompassing.

Oh really? The scriptures say "ALL IS OUT OF GOD". All, that means every single iota of every single thing, thought, emotion, whatever else you can think of. Now if all is out of God and God is defined by Love, which basically means i give and He says He will give all of Him [which is supposed to be everything] to all His creation, how is His love not an all encompassing action?

 

[Enlighten]

Basically its about not following their doctrines and teachings that when you break em down and place against scripture you will see how they either contradict, are anti-scriptural or unscriptural---sometimes all three.

For example, the scriptures teach the resurrection of the dead. The churches out there teach when you die you go to heaven or hell or for catholics purgatory. They thumb they nose at what Paul says is are only hope, the resurrection of the dead. So they thumb they nose at the resurrection. What does Jesus say "I am the resurrection". Do you see it? They deny Jesus because whats the use of a resurrection if you die and instantly come back life after you die and go to a heaven or hell.

Believe me i could go even further with just that one subject on the churches teaching.

I see where you are going with this but imho I think that most Christians know their scriptures. I always say "every day is a school day" and this is so true when it comes to the Bible, you should maybe give people/Christian's more of a chance. I learn something new everyday in life as well as each morning that I read my Bible. That's not to say I don't know who Jesus is and I think most Christian's know there is no sudden springing back to life.

Lets put it this way, when you go to sleep at night, I bet you feel like you have just closed your eyes, then PING, it's morning! Time flies, doesn't it. Hope this makes sense!

 

[Walkntune]

I have no idea what you're talking about now or how it's relevant to the discussion.

Sorry I like to step out of your logical boundaries for fun.

Not technically a "definition", but an opinion on love from former mental patient Emma Pierce in her book "Ordinary Insanity", where she excuses her husbands overzealous religious belief in beating her children as...
"He was their (the childrens) father, and if I gave them support against him, then anarchy would rule."
And a belief in submitting to any authority, wrong or right.
"I firmly believe that authority, lawful authority must be upheld at all times, even when in the wrong. There was a greater consideration; the consideration that law and order must prevail and a bad law is better than no law at all. A father, as designated by the Bible, had lawful authority over his children."

IMO, not the best source for an insight on "love".

I know in your logic 2+2 does not equal four if it comes from a child. If you think you discredit the source then you discredit what is true.It has worked wonders in our courts and politics but doesn't alter reality.
Jesus claimed there is no greater love than to lay down your life for your brother but you probably think that is an emotion also and not an action???

 

[tumbleweed41]

Oh really? The scriptures say "ALL IS OUT OF GOD". All, that means every single iota of every single thing, thought, emotion, whatever else you can think of. Now if all is out of God and God is defined by Love, which basically means i give and He says He will give all of Him [which is supposed to be everything] to all His creation, how is His love not an all encompassing action?

By the logic of "all is out of God", then not only is love all encompassing, but so is hate, fear, apathy and despair.
Therefore
God is Fear
God is Hate
God is Apathy
God is Despair

Consequently, God is Sin.

 

[AK4]

I see where you are going with this but imho I think that most Christians know their scriptures. I always say "every day is a school day" and this is so true when it comes to the Bible, you should maybe give people/Christian's more of a chance. I learn something new everyday in life as well as each morning that I read my Bible. That's not to say I don't know who Jesus is and I think most Christian's know there is no sudden springing back to life.

Lets put it this way, when you go to sleep at night, I bet you feel like you have just closed your eyes, then PING, it's morning! Time flies, doesn't it. Hope this makes sense!

Youd be surprised. Most christians are sheeple and just follow what their pastor teaches and take his word for it. They also think that the bible the read maybe infallible or they just believe what they were always taught from a kid. I was no different. Alot christians probably dont know who Jesus really is because of the trinity doctrine---that one took a long time to unlearn myself.

Basically about the resurrection thing, they dont even teach that you die, the teaching they teach actually is called the immortal soul doctrine. So really they are teaching you never die.

 

[AK4]

Sorry I like to step out of your logical boundaries for fun.



I know in your logic 2+2 does not equal four if it comes from a child. If you think you discredit the source then you discredit what is true.It has worked wonders in our courts and politics but doesn't alter reality.
Jesus claimed there is no greater love than to lay down your life for your brother but you probably think that is an emotion also and not an action???

Good point. Excellent:clap

 

[tumbleweed41]

I know in your logic 2+2 does not equal four if it comes from a child.

Obviously you know nothing of my logic.

If you think you discredit the source then you discredit what is true.

If the source is obviously not an expert of the definition of love, then the definition given is questionable.

Jesus claimed there is no greater love than to lay down your life for your brother but you probably think that is an emotion also and not an action???

Yes, our actions can reflect our emotions. Just as a drawing can reflect reality, but the drawing of a bridge is not actually a bridge.

 

[AK4]

By the logic of "all is out of God", then not only is love all encompassing, but so is hate, fear, apathy and despair.
Therefore
God is Fear
God is Hate
God is Apathy
God is Despair

Consequently, God is Sin.

Dont twist it. All is out of God. God is ultimately responsible for everything. God created evil. Those above are effects from evil.

 

[Enlighten]

Youd be surprised. Most christians are sheeple and just follow what their pastor teaches and take his word for it. They also think that the bible the read maybe infallible or they just believe what they were always taught from a kid. I was no different. Alot christians probably dont know who Jesus really is because of the trinity doctrine---that one took a long time to unlearn myself.

Basically about the resurrection thing, they dont even teach that you die, the teaching they teach actually is called the immortal soul doctrine. So really they are teaching you never die.

I think I may be quite lucky then as I've never been taught that death wont happen. I have been taught and believe in eternal life but not in the sense I wont die, that will happen eventually and I am in no way under the illusion that on my death I will automatically go to Heaven.

 

[AK4]

By the logic of "all is out of God", then not only is love all encompassing, but so is hate, fear, apathy and despair.
Therefore
God is Fear
God is Hate
God is Apathy
God is Despair

Consequently, God is Sin.

Lets look at this again

Lets just say what you put is right. You pointed out the bad ONLY and came to the conclusion God is sin. What happened to the the love part? Is that negated and the bad prevails? See how you guys try to twist things.