Sexual self-pleasure ~ a dead end street

[Saint Frankenstein]

I said "it has more to do with emotions", not just "with ejaculation alone". There are plenty of Saints without prostate cancer who don't ejaculate 21 times a month as per recipe of science. people who have emotional problems can develop many diseases because their system is out of balance. I have no scientific proof. But there is plenty of information on this in the Ayurveda (health system in India). Slowly science in the West will have to admit many things already proven thousands of years ago by Saints.

Nowadays it is proven that meditation is beneficial. That took science already many years to prove. When science has not proven it yet, does not mean it's untrue, it just means they can't or won't prove it yet. Same with cancer. Takes some time. Maybe they already know more than they show us. Big Pharma, ensurance company, doctors they all play a game to maximize profits. They don't show us all they know. You need not be clearvoyant to know that. That is just economics.

It even took science some time to prove the earth is not flat. It is sometimes very difficult for science to prove things. So science runs a little behind the facts. First we get the Saints who know it "by purity of heart", then we get the people who know it by experiences, then many decades later we get science able to prove what already was prophesied sometimes thousand years ago. I give "Spiritual Science" like ayurveda the advantage of doubt, because it has proven it's value. I rather don't wait for doctors telling me the wrong things until proven different.

I'm not interested in folk medicine. I prefer the scientific method and proven medicine, so you're not going to be convincing me of anything unless you have some peer-reviewed studies. I also don't trust religious stories of saints. They're myth, not historical biographies. There's all sorts of stories of holy people in various religions performing various superhuman feats. I used to be a devout Catholic so I know that quite well. I didn't believe that St. Denis' body got up and carried his severed head around so I'm not going to believe that Indian holy people lived off of air and sunshine for decades or whatever. Saint stories just aren't convincing to me when it comes to the facts of everyday reality.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So when you masturbate what kind of love is it that emerges?

.

Of myself and, currently, my SO.

 

[Valjean]

Nothing I said was silly. Of course masturbation is self-love. It's a part of being comfortable in your body. Especially when you've struggled with shame and self-hatred, it can be a form of therapy. Loving your body and your sexuality, including your sexual organs, is a big part of being healthy and happy. I think it's sad how masturbation is looked down on like some es"dirty" or meaningless purely carnal thing. It's as meaningful and spiritual as any other expression of sexuality.

How are you defining love?
People don't masturbate because they love themselves, or to engender love for themselves. They masturbate for the same reason a heroin addict injects Heroin: for the rush and subsequent euphoria.

Your drug use analogy can be used to reduce love and all emotional bonds down to simple chemical interactions in the brain, so you should probably drop it.

Why, if its apt?

 

[stvdv]

I'm not interested in folk medicine. I prefer the scientific method and proven medicine, so you're not going to be convincing me of anything unless you have some peer-reviewed studies. I also don't trust religious stories of saints. They're myth, not historical biographies. There's all sorts of stories of holy people in various religions performing various superhuman feats. I used to be a devout Catholic so I know that quite well. I didn't believe that St. Denis' body got up and carried his severed head around so I'm not going to believe that Indian holy people lived off of air and sunshine for decades or whatever. Saint stories just aren't convincing to me when it comes to the facts of everyday reality.

You choose to believe in science and I choose to believe in Spirituality + Science (and trust my common sense to select what is good for me)

 

[ChristineM]

But don't they also say silly things like having a glass of wine every day helps too? Or eating chocolate lowers your risk for a heart attack?

Could eating chocolate lower risk of stroke and heart disease?

Why is drinking wine silly? The evidence is that countries where more red wine is drunk show a lower incidence of heart disease and stroke and have an increased life expectancy.

Chocolate on the other hand is a tricky one, while the nutrients and antioxidants are beneficial the sugars and calories can be harmful.

However, i live in france where chocolate is chocolate and not emulsifiers, saturated fats and colouring so ill take my chances with the chocolate

 

[ChristineM]

It's not a matter of principle. It's a matter of wisdom in this case. I don't say that you should ejaculate or not, for me personally it's better not to.

Your choice but i see nothing wise about it

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

You choose to believe in science and I choose to believe in Spirituality + Science (and trust my common sense to select what is good for me)

I believe in spirituality, as well, but tempered by reason.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

How are you defining love?
People don't masturbate because they love themselves, or to engender love for themselves. They masturbate for the same reason a heroin addict injects Heroin: for the rush and subsequent euphoria.

Why, if its apt?

You obviously have very negative feelings about masturbation. Since when is physical pleasure and orgasm mutually exclusive to love?

 

[stvdv]

Nothing I said was silly. Of course masturbation is self-love. It's a part of being comfortable in your body. Especially when you've struggled with shame and self-hatred, it can be a form of therapy. Loving your body and your sexuality, including your sexual organs, is a big part of being healthy and happy. I think it's sad how masturbation is looked down on like some "dirty" or meaningless purely carnal thing.

I agree that it is not "dirty" or "meaningless", how you described it "when you have struggled with shame and self-hatred"
I do think it's kind of a "carnal" thing. But not to belittle it and for sure not make a "sin out of it" or saying "it's disgusting"
Anyway, you were given life plus freedom to choose how to live your life. None of our business to criticize your choice
Enjoy your life, and don't let others impose on you their ideas (unless it feels good for you)

 

[Valjean]

That has been my experience, honestly. Drug use and masturbation have, for the most part, gone hand in hand. No pun.

And there is a world of difference between that disfunctional lifestyle, and a properly organized one. From my experience.

Drug use isn't necessarily a 'lifestyle', it's just drug use. Lots of people take medications daily without it being a lifestyle.
Even recreational drug use need not be a lifestyle, any more than going to the movies or listening to music. It's just a thing that gives you pleasure.

 

[stvdv]

Your choice but i see nothing wise about it

I was not expecting that. You need to be clearvoyant to "know what is best for me"

 

[ChristineM]

I was not expecting that. You need to be clearvoyant to "know what is best for me"

Nope, just keep up to date on general medicine rather than relying on bronze age witch doctors.

 

[Valjean]

You obviously have very negative feelings about masturbation. Since when is physical pleasure and orgasm mutually exclusive to love?

Where on Earth did you come up with that conclusion?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Where on Earth did you come up with that conclusion?

You're the one who compared it to a heroin addict getting their fix, which I assume you see in negative terms.

 

[Cooky]

Drug use isn't necessarily a 'lifestyle', it's just drug use. Lots of people take medications daily without it being a lifestyle.
Even recreational drug use need not be a lifestyle, any more than going to the movies or listening to music. It's just a thing that gives you pleasure.

Not quite. Doing what you want to do, while disregarding the common social "norms" is absolutely a lifestyle.

If you have enough money to live lavishly, and indulge in all the finer things in life, while at the same time, never bother to save money, or plan ahead, or show up on time for anything, but rather do whatever you please -that is a lifestyle.

...Add drugs and wild sex to that, and see how that feels. It will eat you alive. Because it's unsustainable.

Eventually, everything becomes destroyed around you.

 

[stvdv]

Nope, just keep up to date on general medicine rather than relying on bronze age witch doctors.

Nope, you filled in something "relying on bronze age witch doctors" which I did not use for this particular choice of mine. Had nothing to do with it.
As I said .. you need to be clearvoyant to know why I do what I do (or I should have told you, which I have not).

 

[ChristineM]

Nope, you filled in something "relying on bronze age witch doctors" which I did not use for this particular choice of mine. Had nothing to do with it.
As I said .. you need to be clearvoyant to know why I do what I do (or I should have told you, which I have not).

You said scriptures.

 

[Cooky]

But there is another way to live...

 

[Valjean]

You're the one who compared it to a heroin addict getting their fix, which I assume you see in negative terms.

I compared the motivations and experiences. There was no judgement, negative or positive. You're reading into it a bunch of social ramifications that aren't there.
It's an analogy. An analogy compares two, specific principles or things. Reading anything more into it is misleading.

A Heroin addict uses Heroin to achieve a rush and to feel good. A masturbator uses masturbation to achieve a rush and to feel good.
If your personal masturbation has broader psychological or social implications, that's a completely separate matter.

I was making no value, political, social or medical comparisons

Not quite. Doing what you want to do, while disregarding the common social "norms" is absolutely a lifestyle.

That seems a very narrow interpretation of "lifestyle." A behavior, maybe. Maybe even a personality disorder. But a lifestyle is an entire culture. It involves your values, personality, fears and pleasures, how you dress, how you groom, your hobbies, your diet, what you read and listen to, who you associate with, interests, hobbies, and living situation, what you drive. It's a description of your whole life.
I'm not implying some wild, anarchic, hedonistic lifestyle.You're reading in more social implications than I intended.

...Add drugs and wild sex to that, and see how that feels. It will eat you alive. Because it's unsustainable.

Eventually, everything becomes destroyed around you.

Lots of people use drugs, masturbate and have sex. For most it doesn't become a destructive, unsustainable lifestyle. For most it's just a casual pleasure with no untoward effects.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I guess in a nutshell, for me, sexual self-pleasure has been a lonely, lonely road. And that's because I want something different. And that's just me.

It's not just you. I have a friend that went through something similar these last two years. He sought solace outside of his marriage because he felt that he was entitled to more, and that if his wife wouldn't provide it, he'd look elsewhere.

I would urge you to resist the temptation to stray in that manner without first discussing it with your wife and getting her blessings. This couple went through about a year of counseling followed by a divorce, an outcome that the husband deeply regrets.