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Featured Selfless Atheism vs Selfish Theism

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Sunstone, Aug 8, 2020.

  1. Sunstone

    Sunstone De Diablo Del Fora
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    What is the meaning or purpose of life? I do not know, but I know that an atheist who commits his or her life to helping others is behaving far less selfishly than a theist who commits his or her life to getting into heaven.


    Note: I am not saying all theists selfishly commit their lives to getting into heaven, nor am I saying all atheists selflessly commit their lives to serving others. D'uh.





     
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  2. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    Theists can kill to get into heaven. :rolleyes:o_O
     
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  3. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Sākṣī
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    I'm not sure there's a great deal of to be taken from such a dichotomy. Not everyone is on the same path or has had experiences that have led to the same realizations that others have, and there are those that need theism and commitment to getting into heaven before they gain the capacity to help others.

    Some currently need a deity to help them gain this realization; others don't.

    In Hinduism there are four yogas that lead to liberation; bhakti (devotion), raja (meditation), karma (action), and jnana (knowledge). There are those that use one path or a combination of more than one. And it may take several lifetimes practicing a variation of these paths to achieve liberation.
     
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  4. Gargovic Malkav

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    Yeah, and WW1 and WW2 were all about religion and getting into heaven. It has nothing to with the shortcomings of a governmental system, or with the stroking of the ego of some power hungry sociopath who managed to get into the minds of people... Only religious people would do that...
     
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  5. syo

    syo Well-Known Member

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    Where did I wrote ''ONLY"?
     
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  6. Gargovic Malkav

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    Oh sorry. I didn't know you weren't finished..
     
  7. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

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    Who but theists believe that there is a Heaven?
    Tom

     
  8. Gargovic Malkav

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    Atheists can still believe in a higher purpose they would sacrifice their lives for and/or kill others for it.
     
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  9. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium Sākṣī
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    I do...
     
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  10. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    Nobody in WW1 or WW2 was trying to get into heaven either. It was caused by the shortcomings of governmental systems, imperialism, the ego of power hungry dictators (none were sociopaths except maybe Göring) and a lot of racism. Nobody thought that by killing their enemies they would get a celestial reward. They were expecting a very terrestrial reward in the form of land, safety and revenge against their enemies (imagined or real). Only religious people, and even then only some religious people, can expect a celestial reward like entry in a blissful afterlife by killing other people.
     
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  11. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    As would theists too. Religion isn't the only higher calling of theists. They have political ideologies too and they can very well kill for those political ideology. Of course, these people would say that their political ideologies are sanctionned by their religion so there is a bit of an overlap there. I would also like to point out that politics doesn't become more important or more influencial to non-religious than to religious people.
     
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  12. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
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    Not that I accept the Bible as inerrant or totally accurate, but I do agree with the quotes in this post. Further I think the atheist who does what his or her heart impels by helping others has an advantage because a theist might have a selfish motive of doing what's expected to get a reward. Instead the atheist does it because it's the right thing to do.

    Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

    and

    Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
     
  13. Gargovic Malkav

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    Indeed. That's what I'm trying to say. It's human nature. Some people always try to find excuses to take more and more, and try to persuade or coerce others into their agenda. The zeitgeist plays a huge role too, as it tends to dictate what is expected from a contemporary state/empire/people.
     
  14. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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  15. bobhikes

    bobhikes Nowoligist
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    It's just my opinion but I think anyone that acts selflessly is a great human.
     
  16. epronovost

    epronovost Well-Known Member

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    There is no disagreement in anyone about the fact that people of all stripes have done cruel and greedy things and it's not the point the OP or that of @syo. The point was to underline that the concept of divine reward can diminishes the acts of charity and generosity undertaken and that the same system of divine reward can sanction acts that would normally be considered malevolent. You seemed to have a "knee-jerk" reaction to those observations.
     
  17. Gargovic Malkav

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    Yeah, I'm tired but didn't want to go to bed yet. But I guess this is a sign I should. I should learn to bite my tongue at occasions like this. I don't want to pick any fights and come across as an a*hole. So, sorry if I stepped on anyone's toes. Good night.
     
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  18. Cooky

    Cooky 100% Ideology free

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    Would you say it's more of a difficult effort or simple pleasure to achieve liberation..? Or does it somehow balance?
     
  19. Cooky

    Cooky 100% Ideology free

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    I wonder if "heaven" could be viewed as a kind of wisdom-experience..? Like an ultimate revealing of sorts.

    Because it does seem like people have an instinctive desire to gain knowledge, which might commonly be viewed as our highest quality. Naturally our focus being on that could reveal surprising discoveries.
     
    #19 Cooky, Aug 8, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2020
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  20. Piculet

    Piculet Active Member

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    Being rich?
     
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