Selfless Atheism vs Selfish Theism

[Sunstone]

Of course. What is also true is that I've participated in food drives. soup kitchens, and overnight shelters for many, many years and I do not recall meeting a single Christian who seemed primarily motivated by the promise of some heavenly reward.

Why would you expect to find the sort of Christian who is primarily motivated by the promise of a heavenly reward volunteering to work in a soup kitchen? I don't see how your comment addresses the OP. What am I missing?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Why would you expect to find the sort of Christian who is primarily motivated by the promise of a heavenly reward volunteering to work in a soup kitchen? I don't see how your comment addresses the OP. What am I missing?

The confusion may be mine. I just do not accept the rule that "a theist who commits his or her life to getting into heaven" is incapable of selfless acts. So, for example, I can imagine a Christian hell bent on getting into heaven (sorry about that) and firmly believing that all that is necessary to achieve this goal is to (a) accept Jesus as his/her savior and (b) keep the commandments. Why must this person be so devoid of empathy and a sense of social responsibility as to preclude volunteering at a soup kitchen?

 

[columbus]

Why would you expect to find the sort of Christian who is primarily motivated by the promise of a heavenly reward volunteering to work in a soup kitchen?

Because it happens a lot.

Most of the similar organizations around here are organized and spearheaded by such theists. Lots of less theistic people pitch in and contribute enormously. But they start because theists, and their scriptural beliefs, launch in to fix a problem.
Tom

 

[Sunstone]

The confusion may be mine. I just do not accept the rule that "a theist who commits his or her life to getting into heaven" is incapable of selfless acts. So, for example, I can imagine a Christian hell bent on getting into heaven (sorry about that) and firmly believing that all that is necessary to achieve this goal is to (a) accept Jesus as his/her savior and (b) keep the commandments. Why must this person be so devoid of empathy and a sense of social responsibility as to preclude volunteering at a soup kitchen?

No, the fault is mine. I did not take proper care when writing the OP to make clear that I was talking about an extreme. Of course you are right -- there are many Christians who are both 'hellbent on getting into heaven' and who exercise a social conscience. I wasn't talking about them -- but I failed to make that clear.

 

[epronovost]

Because it happens a lot.

Most of the similar organizations around here are organized and spearheaded by such theists. Lots of less theistic people pitch in and contribute enormously. But they start because theists, and their scriptural beliefs, launch in to fix a problem.
Tom

Charity most often doesn't really "fix" any problem. It alleviates some of the impacts of the problem, but it doesn't really "fix" it. Of course that doesn't mean that charity is useless, it's actualy essential, but it's not enough to fix societal problem. You don't "fix" homlessness by providing temporary shelters or poverty by openning a soup kitchen; you only alleviate the damage caused by homelessness and poverty.

I have noticed that in certain convervative and very religious circles, that there is a certain overconfidence in the capacity of charity and individual goodwill to solve major social problems from racism to poverty passing by lack of healhcare services.

 

[syo]

Oh sorry. I didn't know you weren't finished..

You are joking, right?

 

[Gargovic Malkav]

You are joking, right?

I was being sarcastic. I was tired and in a snappy mood and dealt with it in a not-so-clever way.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

What is the meaning or purpose of life? I do not know, but I know that an atheist who commits his or her life to helping others is behaving far less selfishly than a theist who commits his or her life to getting into heaven.

True enough, at least on the face of it. It's always possible the atheist is only doing it to impress the uber-hot Christian chick he's trying to bang. Or something.

Apart from giving me an excuse to post 'uber-hot Christian chick he's trying to bang' in a thread, somewhat in context, I guess my point here is that things are really pretty simple.
People who are helping others without expectation of reward (whether that be from God, or some other source) are behaving less selfishly than those who who do so for reward.

The tricky part is working out who...if anyone...is completely altruistic. I kinda lean to the view that no-one is. But...like everything else I suspect...it's not a binary position. A person is not simply 'altruistic' or 'not-altruistic' but instead moves about on a continuum on a situational basis.

Note: I am not saying all theists selfishly commit their lives to getting into heaven, nor am I saying all atheists selflessly commit their lives to serving others. D'uh.

Whilst sad that you felt the need to add that, I COMPLETELY understand why you felt the need to add that.