I would like to make some observations about this 10 page thread.
1) Over the first 6 pages, only 2 verses from scripture were given to support the idea that the Bible condemned homosexuality. These being Romans 1 24-32 (NKJV) and 1 Cor. 6:9 (NWT)
2) Over the next 3 pages, a further
one verse was given, Leviticus 18:22
3) On the last page, my heart soared as CMIYC posted a reply full of what looked like possibly relevant scripture. Needless to say such joy was short lived.
So thats it is it? Thats all that the Bible has to say on the topic of homosexuality? Well there are one or two others.
However to focus on the ones that have been stated so far.
Romans 1:24-32 (NKJV)
First of all lets see what this scripture condemns, relating to homosexuality. [font=arial,helvetica]Bennett Sims says "[/font][font=arial,helvetica]
For most of us who seriously honor Scripture these verses still stand as the capital New Testament text that unequivocally prohibits homosexual behavior. More prohibitively, this text has been taken to mean that even a same-sex inclination is reprehensible, so that a type of humanity known as 'homosexual' has steadily become the object of contempt and discrimination." Additionally, this passage condemns lesbians making it unique in the Bible.
Firstly a word of caution when dealing with the writings of Paul. [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"
As also in all his [Paul's] epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction." 2 Peter 3:15-17
And warnings from a more modern source. [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]"
Paul's writings have been taken out of context and twisted to punish and oppress every identifiable minority in the world: Jews, children, women, blacks, slaves, politicians, divorced people, convicts, pro choice people, lesbians, gays, bisexuals, transsexuals, religious reformers, the mentally ill, and the list could go on and on. Paul is often difficult and confusing to understand. A lot of Paul's writing is very difficult to translate. Since most of his letters were written in response to news from other people, reading Paul can be like listening to one side of a telephone conversation. We know, or think we know, what Paul is saying, but we have to guess what the other side has said." [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]
- R.S. Truluck, "
The six Bible passages used to condemn homosexuals," at:
http://www.truluck.com/html/
Now I will draw your attention to specific parts of the scripture. "
vile passions" is a phrase that is translated in quite a few different ways, depending on the version, such as "
evil things" (Living Bible). The word "passions", in the original Greek, is also used to describe the suffering of Jesus in Acts 1:3 and therefore is unlikely to mean romantic love. Eros was the word used for such a thing but this is not used to describe what would be involved in a loving consenting homosexual relationship. At the time of his writing, there was a Pagan fertility cult on the rise in Corinth. Another possible interpretation is that Paul was referring to the drug induced state and sexual orgies of its members. Such an interpretation also explains the language used.
The next important note, and what is key for me, is that Paul talks of men and women "abandoning", "leaving", "exchanging" the normal, natural practices of beforehand, with homosexual sex. This implies that these were heterosexual men and women engaging in homosexual sex. If such a thing is true, then an alternative interpretation could be Paul telling Christians to stay true to their sexuality and not to try to be something which you are not for any reason, the reason this time being the lure of a pagan cult.
The words translated as "against nature" here, and often interpreted to mean that homosexuality is against nature and
therefore wrong, have been used before. To refer to long hair on men as being unusual (NOT WRONG) (1 Cor. 11:14) NB for those who do not know, Paul also wrote 1 Corinthians; to refer to God's actions on bringing the Jews and Gentiles together (maybe God's actions, which by Paul's own words go "against nature", are wrong as well?) (Romans 11:24)
Now my last point is context, context and more context.
www.religioustolerance.org offers an alternative interpretation of these passages based on the tradtional interpretation of the preceeding passages. Here it is:
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www.religioustolerance.org said:
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[/font] [font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]Verses 21-23: The people had once been Christians. But they had fallen away from the faith, and returned to Paganism. They made images of Pagan gods in the form of men, birds, animals and reptiles for their religious rituals. The latter were probably held in Pagan temples.[/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]
Verse 24: Next, they engaged in heterosexual orgies with each other as part of these pagan fertility rituals.[/font] [font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]
Verse 25: Next, they worshipped the images that they had made, instead of God, the creator. Paul is specifically condemning idol worship here.[/font] [font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]
Verse 26: Because of these forbidden practices, God intervened in these fertility sex-rituals and changed the people's behavior so that women started to engage in sexual activities with other women. [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]
Verse 27: describes how God had the men also engage in same-sex ritual activities. They (presumably both the men and women) were then punished in some way for their error. [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]
Verse 28: Again, because they did not acknowledge God, then He "gave them up" to many different unethical activities and attitudes: evil, covetousness, malice, envy, murder, etc.[/font]
Religious Tolerance then goes on to say, and I agree, that
[font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]" The passage deals with immoral behavior among heterosexuals who have converted from Christianity to Paganism and engaged in behavior which is against their nature." [/font][font=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]
I would like to stress the word which I have underlined just so there is no confusion.
Now this is quite a long post. I am fully prepared to do the above for other Biblical passages (including the 2 others which have been cited) which condemn homosexuality but my fingers are very tired and my brain is hurting so if there is a demand for such then I will do so but not quite yet .
Thank you very much for your time
Fluffy
Edit: Oh I nearly forgot, my references have been the following pages:
http://www.truluck.com/html/six_bible_passages.html
http://members.aol.com/DrSwiney/bennett.html
http://www.ualberta.ca/~cbidwell/UFMCC/freetobe.htm
http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibc3.htm
Also people might find the following of some interest:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/god_pra1.htm
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