Scientist claims HCQ works good to treat Corona

[Kenny]

No of course it is NOT implied. Don't be ridiculous. Medical authorities don't go around "implying" things. What is meant is what was said, viz. the efficacy of hydroxychloroquine has been evaluated and found not to be significant, while there are known dangerous side effects for some people. On that basis it makes no sense to approve it as a treatment, for the reason I gave, namely that if it were approved, doctors might place faith in it instead of trying other therapies, and preventable deaths would result.

Whereas, there are several therapies (inexpensive steroids) that actually HAVE been shown to give substantial, statistically verified, reductions in severity of the illness. So that is what doctors should be prescribing.

And, just to re-emphasise, what you said earlier about them seeming to be happy for people to die is a gross calumny on the scientific and medical professions and - to be frank - comes across as hysterical.

OK... I think I will drop the "hysterical" side of our conversation.

I noticed that you didn't mention the :

The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons

Was there a reason?

 

[exchemist]

OK... I think I will drop the "hysterical" side of our conversation.

I noticed that you didn't mention the :



Was there a reason?

There wasn't a reason when I wrote my reply, other than that I had never heard of them. However, since you probe me on this, I have checked what this organisation actually is and now I understand why I had never heard of them. There is in fact every reason to be dismissive of their views. It is a medically-orientated political lobby group, with a long track record of supporting bogus medical ideas. I quote Wiki:

" The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a conservative non-profit association founded in 1944. The group was reported to have about 5,000 members in 2014. The association has promoted a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism."

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons - Wikipedia

Even the Daily Mail article you refer to points out the research they rely on is largely anecdotal. And that article was written back in April. We have learnt a lot more since then.

You have been suckered, basically.

 

[Kenny]

There wasn't a reason when I wrote my reply, other than that I had never heard of them. However, since you probe me on this, I have checked what this organisation actually is and now I understand why I had never heard of them. There is in fact every reason to be dismissive of their views. It is a medically-orientated political lobby group, with a long track record of supporting bogus medical ideas. I quote Wiki:

" The Association of American Physicians and Surgeons (AAPS) is a conservative non-profit association founded in 1944. The group was reported to have about 5,000 members in 2014. The association has promoted a range of scientifically discredited hypotheses, including the belief that HIV does not cause AIDS, that being gay reduces life expectancy, that there is a link between abortion and breast cancer, and that there is a causal relationship between vaccines and autism."

Association of American Physicians and Surgeons - Wikipedia

Even the Daily Mail article you refer to points out the research they rely on is largely anecdotal. And that article was written back in April. We have learnt a lot more since then.

You have been suckered, basically.

Wiki is manipulated by the poster. Apparently the poster is anti-conservative.

Any group can have a hypothesis that is later disproved, but it doesn't negate that they are Physicians.

Statistics have proved that homosexuals have a lower life expectancy. The fact that you have dismissed it means "you have been suckered.

Modelling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay and bisexual men.

CONCLUSION: In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday.

Where else did you miss it?

 

[exchemist]

Wiki is manipulated by the poster. Apparently the poster is anti-conservative.

Any group can have a hypothesis that is later disproved, but it doesn't negate that they are Physicians.

Statistics have proved that homosexuals have a lower life expectancy. The fact that you have dismissed it means "you have been suckered.

Modelling the impact of HIV disease on mortality in gay and bisexual men.

CONCLUSION: In a major Canadian centre, life expectancy at age 20 years for gay and bisexual men is 8 to 20 years less than for all men. If the same pattern of mortality were to continue, we estimate that nearly half of gay and bisexual men currently aged 20 years will not reach their 65th birthday.

Where else did you miss it?

Yes this paper from a quarter of a century ago showed that back then, in Vancouver or Toronto I think, the impact of HIV - specifically - reduced their life expectancy. The same authors have subsequently pointed out if this study had been done later it would have reached a different conclusion.

And the other three examples of bad science?

Seriously, you will struggle to demonstrate evidence this AAPS bunch is worth taking seriously. They have never published any peer-reviewed science, resorting instead to publishing their own junk journal, which actually made it onto Beall's List!

 

[atanu]

There have been numerous trials, conducted under numerous different conditions that show wildly differing results. There is also a large amount of differing anecdotal/experiential evidence.

We do not yet know what the definitive answer to the question is: it might work, it might work only in certain circumstances, it might not work at all or it might be harmful.

Saying it definitely doesn't work is not scientific though.

Trump oversold it for political reasons, but rejecting it for political reasons is equally bad.

This seems very balanced. I read French and Chinese papers published during January-Feb, 20 that showed evidence that HCQ improved chances of survival by a slim margin. Probably that claim did not stand up to further scrutiny. But rejecting it outright is also wrong.

...

 

[atanu]

Yes this paper from a quarter of a century ago showed that back then, ....

And the other three examples of bad science?

Seriously, you will struggle to demonstrate evidence this AAPS bunch is worth taking seriously. They have never published any peer-reviewed science, resorting instead to publishing their own junk journal, which actually made it onto Beall's List!

So, half a century later you may find more bad science. And can Beall, a librarian with an agenda, always be the last judge of scientific work?

YMMV.

...

 

[Kenny]

Yes this paper from a quarter of a century ago showed that back then, in Vancouver or Toronto I think, the impact of HIV - specifically - reduced their life expectancy. The same authors have subsequently pointed out if this study had been done later it would have reached a different conclusion.

And the other three examples of bad science?

Hardly.

About LGBT Health
People who are lesbian, gay, bisexual, or transgender (LGBT) are members of every community. They are diverse, come from all walks of life, and include people of all races and ethnicities, all ages, all socioeconomic statuses, and from all parts of the United States. The perspectives and needs of LGBT people should be routinely considered in public health efforts to improve the overall health of every person and eliminate health disparities.

From the CDC
About LGBT Health | Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender Health | CDC

There is a health disparity in health and lifespan - yes, medical advances has helped lessen the differences

This article provides an overview of the current literature on seven cancer sites that may disproportionately affect lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender/transsexual, and queer/questioning (LGBTQ) populations.

Cancer and Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender/Transsexual, and Queer/Questioning Populations (LGBTQ)

But if you just want to believe what science you want to create... go right ahead.


I'm just glad that God is in the healing business and Medical Science is doing what they can do for all people

 

[Wandering Monk]

I am still a bit skeptical about HCQ, but there may be some efficacy at lower doses.

 

[Milton Platt]

I always think people speak the truth (except the very rich ones), probably because that's what I do. But you are right, maybe they just lied....another conspiracy
But why would they lie about that?

I don't know. Click bait headlines to get viewers to sell ads? Lack of critical thinking skills? Wishful thinking?