1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured scientific word for Biblical Filament in Genesis 1: Universe in the Nutshell

Discussion in 'Science and Religion' started by questfortruth, Apr 13, 2019.

  1. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    858
    Ratings:
    +139
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox Christianity
    Question: Just how far above Earth does this vast dome extend, and what the heck are these waters that lie above it?

    Answer: The radius of Observable Universe, waters above the firmament might be another word for Spiritual Food and Drink, Spiritual Wisdom. The spatial shape I prove below dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2 is totally flat, just the Pythagorean theorem. One should show, that also the temporal geometry near Earth is totally Flat: -c^2 dt^2+dx^2 + dy^2 + dz^2. From it comes the intuitive and Biblical feeling, that the material, earthly world must be Flat: not "Flat Earth", but "Flat at Earth".



    Q: So the spiritual food and drink flooded the world when God opened the windows of the heavens?

    A: On the way down it was transformed into literal water. It is like Dark Matter -- Baryon Matter transition, which can solve the Cosmology Crisis, about which is the video in the thread. Remember how Jesus turned water into wine? Basically, He created wine from nothing.

    Q: i.e. it is magic and will magically be whatever you want it to be without any reason? This is why religious nonsense has no place in rational debate.

    A: Wrong word choice. Use word wonder, use word miracle. God is not satan.
    How the dating games and the female logic rational? Love seems to be irrational, intuitive.



    Q: until God is not officially proven, the connection of Theology and Science must be forbidden by state police!!! As they have done in Iceland: Iceland Declares All Religions Are Weapons Of Mass Destruction

    A: God is proven here: scientific word for Biblical Filament in Genesis 1: Universe in the Nutshell

    Q: (Genesis 1:14-16 KJV) This verse says that the Sun, Moon, and Stars=planets of our solar system, are "within" the firmament?

    No, this verse relates to human perspective. People see, that stars (even Sun) are so far away, that they appear to be inside the firmament. But firmament is the edge of Observable Universe in my unpublished theories.

    PROOF:

    Does the large scale structure of our Universe fit into metric

    ds^2=-A(r,t) dt^2+dx^2+dy^2+dz^2 ?
    There is Baryonic matter ("mass"). It satisfies the Einstein Equations in the presence of Dark Matter. Just describe the Dark Matter by an arbitrary energy-momentum tensor [Dark Energy then is the special class of Dark Matter.] Even such, which violates energy conditions. Nobody will notice violation: Dark Matter does not directly interact with Baryonic matter. I have written the book about it, but book is about 50 USD. Nobody has read it.

    Perhaps, A(r,t)=h(r). The h(r) is not zero to count for cosmological red-shift and its acceleration with spatial distance. Look: we have never found the temporal acceleration, because the observation period with modern technologies is only 20 years. [We calculate the t-derivative of the scale a(t) of Universe NOT by comparing different years passed on Earth, but by spatial investigations of the Heavens. Because the further galaxy is, the more distant it in the past time. But not the Earth's time! Only the Universe abstract time t. But latter is determined by the model we use. Let us construct Biblical model!]

    At the edge of the Universe then A(E(t),t)=0 for any t to have nothingness outside the Universe.

    The Alfa of Universe has A(r,t=0)=0, for any 0<r<E(t=0) the Omega has A(r,t=T)=0, for any 0<r<E(t=T). Thus, it is expected, that A(r,t)=F(t) h(r). The F(t) is zero for t<0 and t>T, otherwise it is 1 (because one can be transformed into 1 by coordinate transformations). To make start the Universe from the single point, one writes: E(t=0)=0. For bodies to never reach the edge, one writes E = E(t=0) + t.

    Evidence in favour: the Hubble constant calculated by two methods: 1. current observations, 2. evolution of the cosmos in Friedmann metric, does not coincide:

    Hsin-Yu Chen, Maya Fishbach, Daniel E. Holz, A two per cent Hubble constant measurement from standard sirens within five years, Nature 562, 545-547 (2018), Anil Ananthaswamy, "Best-Yet Measurements Deepen Cosmological Crisis. The latest disagreement over the universe's expansion rate suggests researchers may be on the threshold of revolutionary discoveries'', Scientific American, March 22, 2019.



    The Science cannot ever be settled, and so different scientific models should be investigated. Therefore, with the support of a generous private grant, I would match the function h(r) with accelerated expansion, hereby, I hope, would result, that at h(r = E[t=2019AC])=0 the Metagalaxy (observable Universe) is the entire Universe.

    The Big Bang contradicts my model, but Big Bang is disproved here: P. Herouni, Measured Parameters of Large Antenna of ROT-54/2.6 Tell about Absence of Big Bang Journal of Astrophysics: Reports. — National Academy of Sciences of Armenia 2007, v. 107, no. 1. 73-78

     
    #1 questfortruth, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 14, 2019
  2. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    26,545
    Ratings:
    +10,647
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    I suggest you first quote the verse in Genesis that mentions a filament before asking any questions.

    .
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    858
    Ratings:
    +139
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox Christianity
    It is firmament: Genesis 1:7 KJV. Your brain has not found common pattern in words: firmament, filament? I guess, the Google would find out, that I have misspelled. Are we becoming
    bio-robots then? Please reread, video is added.
     
  4. Dan Mellis

    Dan Mellis Thorsredballs

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2019
    Messages:
    482
    Ratings:
    +284
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Before we get into the equations - please give a reason why this proves your book's version and not, say, the quran. Or the Norse creation story... which is wayyy more interesting by the way, theres cows and giants and people being born out of armpits and violence and stuff.

    Besides, to prove a "firmament" as described in the Bible you'd have to prove the existence of a god to create it in the first place.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  5. Native

    Native Natural Philosopher

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,595
    Ratings:
    +201
    Religion:
    Animism
    Hello questfortruth,

    Personally I have no troubles with using the biblical Story of Creation - or for that matter other cultural creation stories and compare these with the observations of modern science, but first:

    Have you ever pondered over if the cosmic distance measuring method could be false where the luminosity of a star is connected to distance - and even the human invention of "time"?
     
  6. Skwim

    Skwim Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2010
    Messages:
    26,545
    Ratings:
    +10,647
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    A commonality of sorts, but hardly enough to believe "filament" was a typo of "firmament." Hence my conclusion that you meant to write "filament." But why? :shrug:

    In any case, considering that the firmament is

    "In biblical cosmology, the firmament is the structure above the atmosphere of Earth, conceived as a vast solid dome."
    Source: Catholic Encyclopedia

    And Genesis 1:7 (KJV) says:

    7 And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
    Just how far above Earth does this vast dome extend, and what the heck are these waters that lie above it?

    .

    .
     
    #6 Skwim, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
    • Winner Winner x 2
  7. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    858
    Ratings:
    +139
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox Christianity
    The radius of Observable Universe, waters might be another word for Spiritual Food and Drink.
     
  8. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    858
    Ratings:
    +139
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox Christianity
    One, who has proven God, can prove anything, and I have proven the Riemann Hypothesis. God is proven here:

    Human common reaction to a new thing is played in ``Ace Ventura When Nature Calls: There's someone on the wing... some... thing''


    There are indeed wonderful things to discover, because Philosophy of Religion must be united with Physics: knowledge of a human is the knowledge, that has his God. If human knows, that his God is omnipresent or omnipotent, then the human must also say, that his God is existent. It means, from dogma of omnipotence (also from omnipresence) comes dogma of Existence: if I do not exist, then I am not in potential to do anything.

    The 2019 Wikipedia with references to peer-review sources tells us, that there must be a perfect description of faith, look: ``In the context of religion, one can define faith as confidence or trust in a particular system of religious belief,[1] within which faith may equate to confidence based on some perceived degree of warrant,[2][3] in contrast to a definition of faith as being belief without evidence.[4]'' I suggest, that the perfect description of faith is: Faith is the Faithfullness to Knowledge. I perfectly know, that my God is not satan, not Zeus, but Jesus Christ: John 8:54-55. In the Holy Book are many verses about the crucial importance of mind: ``Love your God with all your mind and heart''.

    An omniscient thing must know own existence, so, in Science there is knowledge of existence of Him. It is easy to be omniscient and omnipotent, if you would be omnipresent. Thus, there is omniscient thing out there.

    I tell opponent, what I have the proof. Opponent tells, that there is no proof. Thus, I tell him to stop playing God. Indeed, every word of God is true. But why my word is wrong, but opponent's is true?! Because opponent is playing God! He uses God-speech: Genesis 3:5 ``and you will be like God, knowing''.

    God of Love, being omnipresent, unites married couple in perfect love: ``in this world we just beginning to understand the miracle of living; maybe I was afraid before, but I am not afraid anymore'' (from Belinda Carlisle's song ``Heaven is the place on Earth'')


    God is not evil. The satan is evil. God is good. So, the holy angel Lucifer has lost own existence. ``What is an Existential Crisis?''


    God has nothing in common with satan. The satan has no origin in God: ``He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.'' John 8:47 KJV. The satan is absolute nothingness. Opponent: ``It is odd, because satan is active figure in Bible.'' The Bible needs Church interpretation, because there is even Flat Earth (dome) in the Bible: ``So God made the vault and separated the water under the vault from the water above it.'' Genesis 1:7 NIV. I think, the Flat Earth in the Bible is God's ``trolling'' of the technological way of civilization: ``Dancing With Tears In My Eyes''

     
  9. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    858
    Ratings:
    +139
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox Christianity
    The Big Bang contradicts my theory. But, Big Bang is disproven here:
     
  10. Native

    Native Natural Philosopher

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,595
    Ratings:
    +201
    Religion:
    Animism
    Regarding the term of "Biblical Filament in Genesis" this is a mythical and cosmogonical description of the entire ancient world view.

    Besides this, we have to think of the extend of the creation in the ancient known part of the Universe wich at the largest could have included the Milky Way galaxy and thus also the Solar System.

    If so, the ancient Stories of Creation don´t speak of a creation of the entire Universe as thought by many scholars, but "just" of the creation of the Milky Way.

    Furthermore, the world picture in the ancient cultures was that everything had an eternal cycle of creation of formation, dissolution and re-formation, so in their perception, there was NO beginning at all. If correctly so, this rejects the modern idea of a Big Bang.

    When ancient cultures spoke of a beginning, this refers to the pre-conditions of the Milky Way formation and of the Solar System cosmogony and NOT of the entire Universe - which even modern science can explain logically.
     
  11. Native

    Native Natural Philosopher

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,595
    Ratings:
    +201
    Religion:
    Animism
    Nicely spotted :)

    The dome is of course the entire daily and nocturnal Sky imagery over the Earth. Above the Earth, we can observe stars and star constellations and the white/grey band of the Milky Way on a clear and dark night.

    This celestial structure was mentioned and symbolized in several ancient cultures as "the River on the Sky" which indeed were/are a fine and natural way of using known Earthly rivers to describe the celestial imagery of the Milky Way band, which is observable all around the Earth.

    IMO the Milky Way band resembles the biblical telling of the "waters above".
     
  12. sooda

    sooda Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2019
    Messages:
    10,976
    Ratings:
    +3,366
    Religion:
    Christian
    Firmament just means sky,
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    9,044
    Ratings:
    +6,568
    Religion:
    Catholic
    "Might".


    By the way, re: firmament and filament, you know that Genesis wasn't actually written in English, right?
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Useful Useful x 1
  14. Kangaroo Feathers

    Kangaroo Feathers Hardline moderate

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    9,044
    Ratings:
    +6,568
    Religion:
    Catholic
    "disproven" lol
     
  15. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    12,433
    Ratings:
    +12,169
    Religion:
    Non-theist

    Exactly how does the small difference in the values of Hubble's constant get explained by your model? It looks to me like you are simply imposing a boundary on the universe at each time, never solving the equations of GR and making a claim that the observed discrepancies support your model. But that claim is made with no supporting calculations or evidence.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  16. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2017
    Messages:
    12,433
    Ratings:
    +12,169
    Religion:
    Non-theist
    A video by a crank, nothing more.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    41,798
    Ratings:
    +3,408
    that was dense
    and I kinda liked it
    but

    science takes us to a primordial singularity
    a single location
    and the numbers ( though I cannot quote them) indicate
    a gravity well sooooooooo intense
    matter as we know it cannot take form

    which suits me ......as I read Genesis
    "void'........"and without form"

    no secondary point is allowed
    for the occurence of a secondary initiates infinity
     
  18. questfortruth

    questfortruth Active Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2017
    Messages:
    858
    Ratings:
    +139
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox Christianity
    Yes, you are right on this. However the Science cannot ever be settled, and so different scientific models should be investigated. Therefore, with the support of a generous private grant, I would match the function h(r) with accelerated expansion, hereby, I hope, would result, that h(r = E[t=2019AC])=0. Namely, the Metagalaxy is the entire Universe.
     
  19. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

    Joined:
    Apr 12, 2009
    Messages:
    41,798
    Ratings:
    +3,408
    so you guys are using thought experiments?
     
  20. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2017
    Messages:
    11,956
    Ratings:
    +5,351
    Religion:
    Baha'i Faith
    There is a disconnect here between a highly interpretive stretch of Genesis, and contemporary physics and cosmology for which there is no relationship. There is no 'proof' relationship with your interpretation of Genesis, and physics and cosmology.

    The science of physics and cosmology have nothing to with the philosophical/religious issues of theism nor atheism

    Nice video!!!!
     
    #20 shunyadragon, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
    • Like Like x 2
Loading...