science vs. religion debate, please

[rusra02]

So what you're saying is that God doesn't know about the world, but is really good at learning about it, using the scientific method?

As for religion vs. science, if you wanted to know what the weather will be Sunday, would you pray for guidance, or read the weather report?

A little modesty is in order here. Perhaps scientists can respond to the questions Jehovah asked Job "Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth? ...Who set its measurements in case you know?... Was it from your days onward that you commanded the morning?...Where,now, is the way to where light resides?" (Job 38:4-19) Actually, all that science can do is study the work of the greatest Scientist and try to dimly understand the wisdom, power, and intelligence manifest in this work.

 

[Adso]

And here is the problem with engineers, they think they are much smarter than everyone else.

I would wager that in most scenarios they are the smartest individuals in the group of people around them. I've met quite a few of them, and despite their extreme intelligence, have not found one to have the arrogance you speak of.

Example, it was an engineer that thought of putting the toilet paper dispensers in public restrooms two feet off the floor. They say it is so hadicapped people will have less diffuculty when reaching for the paper. Hello! I think they sit on the same john I do. If I have trouple getting the paper out, I think it would be more difficult for the hadicapped person!

Two feet off the ground? Difficult to reach? Where the heck do you live?

 

[tumbleweed41]

A little modesty is in order here. Perhaps scientists can respond to the questions Jehovah asked Job "Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth? ...Who set its measurements in case you know?... Was it from your days onward that you commanded the morning?...Where,now, is the way to where light resides?" (Job 38:4-19) Actually, all that science can do is study the work of the greatest Scientist and try to dimly understand the wisdom, power, and intelligence manifest in this work.

Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth declare if thou hast understanding
Who hath laid the measures thereof if thou knowest or who hath stretched the line upon it
Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened or who laid the corner stone thereof
When the morning stars sang together and all the sons of God shouted for joy
Or who shut up the sea with doors when it brake forth as if it had issued out of the womb
When I made the cloud the garment thereof and thick darkness a swaddlingband for it
And brake up for it my decreed place and set bars and doors
And said Hitherto __ shalt thou come but no further and here shall thy proud wavesbe stayed
Hast thou commanded the morning since thy days and caused the dayspring to knowhis place
That it might take hold of the ends of the earth that the wicked might be shaken out of it
It is turned as clay to the seal and they stand as a garment
And from the wicked their light is withholden and the high arm shall be broken
Hast thou entered into the springs of the sea or hast thou walked in the search of the depth
Have the gates of death been opened unto thee or hast thou seen the doors of the shadow of death
Hast thou perceived the breadth of the earth declare if thou knowest it all
Where is the way where light dwelleth and as for darkness where is the place thereof

Poetic, but many scientifically false statements.

 

[RevArchangel]

I think the bible is a manual of how to save souls, everything else is secondary, or gravy in hillbillyease'. I do believe there is some practical applied science in the bible, but it’s not a text book material and has very little to no hard science in it. Its like a well researched historical novel with accurate statements that involve science. But in my opinion its still the most important book of history, but I am biased.

 

[AxisMundi]

I think the bible is a manual of how to save souls, everything else is secondary, or gravy in hillbillyease'. I do believe there is some practical applied science in the bible, but it’s not a text book material and has very little to no hard science in it. Its like a well researched historical novel with accurate statements that involve science. But in my opinion its still the most important book of history, but I am biased.

Most important? Only if you're attempting to use pure numbers to describe "important", a argumentum ad numerium fallacy. A more important book for Christians would be Jefferson's "Jefferson Bible", in which Jefferson attempted to remove the theopolitical, Paulist garbage and isolate the teaching attributed to your Christ figure.

Historically accurate? Really? Like where?

Applied sciences? Enumerate, please.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

I think the bible is a manual of how to save souls, everything else is secondary, or gravy in hillbillyease'. I do believe there is some practical applied science in the bible, but it’s not a text book material and has very little to no hard science in it. Its like a well researched historical novel with accurate statements that involve science. But in my opinion its still the most important book of history, but I am biased.

Care to provide any examples of "accurate statements that involve science" from the Bible?

 

[AxisMundi]

what is there to debate? God is the greastest scientist of all TIME!!!!

While we all realize you have no interest in a debate whatsoever, let's see what your bible says about your god being a "scientist", shall we?

Your bible claims the earth is some 6,000 years old, if one counts back the generations from the mythical Adam & Eve on up. Science notes that this is false, and the earth is some 4 billion years of age. Happy Birthday Earth.

Your bible claims your "scientist god" created stars on the third day. Science tells us that the universe, including the stars, is nearly ten billion years older than the earth. Oops for god's "science".

Your bible states your "scientist god" created life on land first. Science tells us this is false, life began in the seas. Your bible also claims your "scientist god" created every living at once, and then took a break. Science also tells us this is false.

Your bible states that your "scientist god" created the human race starting with one single couple. Science tells us that, according to the Minimal Population Viability concept, the human race would've been dead within generations, extinct. One mating pair is not enough to sustain any species, human or otherwise.

So, tell us again how great of a "scientist" your god is, when he, apparently, cannot follow even basic scientific processes?

 

[painted wolf]

God is definitely not a scientist.... artist maybe, but not a scientist.

wa:do

 

[Autodidact]

A little modesty is in order here. Perhaps scientists can respond to the questions Jehovah asked Job "Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth? ...Who set its measurements in case you know?... Was it from your days onward that you commanded the morning?...Where,now, is the way to where light resides?" (Job 38:4-19) Actually, all that science can do is study the work of the greatest Scientist and try to dimly understand the wisdom, power, and intelligence manifest in this work.

Assuming there is any such thing, which you have not established.

In any case, it's not the subject of the thread. The thread is not about God, it's about religion. So, again, if you're trying not to get polio, do you pray, or do you get a vaccine?

 

[Quagmire]

Ahhh, the limits of mortal men's papers. Do you really think the Creator cares about your so-called colleges? The Christ did not publish any papers. Nor did he go to any of your colleges, yet he sits at the right hand of God, or as I prefer to call him, Creator.

According to papers that someone published.

 

[Nepenthe]

And here is the problem with engineers, they think they are much smarter than everyone else. Example, it was an engineer that thought of putting the toilet paper dispensers in public restrooms two feet off the floor. They say it is so hadicapped people will have less diffuculty when reaching for the paper. Hello! I think they sit on the same john I do. If I have trouple getting the paper out, I think it would be more difficult for the hadicapped person! It's not your fault engineers, you just spend more time in books than you do in the real world.

That's nothin'- I read about this engineer that [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]put the reproductive, urinary and excretory tracts in the same anatomical region[/FONT]! Talk about stupid. Some mammals actually breathe and drink through the same opening, while others, like dolphins, have separate holes for each. I'd like to see that engineer's license revoked. And don't get me started on that incompetent engineer screwing up the gene for L-gulonolactone oxidase.

 

[rusra02]

While we all realize you have no interest in a debate whatsoever, let's see what your bible says about your god being a "scientist", shall we?

Your bible claims the earth is some 6,000 years old, if one counts back the generations from the mythical Adam & Eve on up. Science notes that this is false, and the earth is some 4 billion years of age. Happy Birthday Earth.

Where in the Bible is the claim the earh is only 6,000 years old?

Your bible claims your "scientist god" created stars on the third day. Science tells us that the universe, including the stars, is nearly ten billion years older than the earth. Oops for god's "science".

No, it doesn't make that claim. What is being described is the appearance of these heavenly objects in earth's expanse or atmosphere on the 4th creative day, not their creation. The first verse in Genesis says it was in the beginning that God created the heavens and the earth. This occurred before any of the creative days spoken of in Genesis, and doubtless occurred billions of years ago, as scientists have discovered.

Your bible states your "scientist god" created life on land first. Science tells us this is false, life began in the seas. Your bible also claims your "scientist god" created every living at once, and then took a break. Science also tells us this is false.

Yes, the Bible states God created the plant life before creating sea creatures. However, land animals appeared after sea life, according to Genesis chapter 1.
The Bible does not say God created every living thing at once. The length of the creative days is not specified and could have been thousands of years long.

Your bible states that your "scientist god" created the human race starting with one single couple. Science tells us that, according to the Minimal Population Viability concept, the human race would've been dead within generations, extinct. One mating pair is not enough to sustain any species, human or otherwise.

Do you believe everything a scientist tells you? What makes you think Adam and Eve were the only mating pair? They bore numerous children who married and bore more children.

So, tell us again how great of a "scientist" your god is, when he, apparently, cannot follow even basic scientific processes?

As I mentioned above, your objections to the account in the Bible are based on misunderstanding what the Bible actually says. That aside, scientists and engineers are studying and mimicking the design features of various creatures—a field known as biomimetics—in an effort to create new products and improve the performance of existing machines. Creation shouts DESIGN! INTELLIGENCE! and all scientists can do is learn from what was created by Jehovah, the great Scientist.

 

[AxisMundi]

Where in the Bible is the claim the earh is only 6,000 years old?

Counting the generations from Adam and Eve on up, one arrives at the 6,000 year old number. besides being a lousy "engineer", Jehovah can't count appearently.

No, it doesn't make that claim. What is being described is the appearance of these heavenly objects in earth's expanse or atmosphere on the 4th creative day, not their creation. The first verse in Genesis says it was in the beginning that God created the heavens and the earth. This occurred before any of the creative days spoken of in Genesis, and doubtless occurred billions of years ago, as scientists have discovered.

Apolgetics at their finest. I am merely going by what your bible proclaims is truth, not your Apologetic fantasies.

"...Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years,..." states they were created, not "appeared".

Yes, the Bible states God created the plant life before creating sea creatures. However, land animals appeared after sea life, according to Genesis chapter 1.

The Bible does not say God created every living thing at once. The length of the creative days is not specified and could have been thousands of years long.

Do you really think I have not read the bible? Or that there are no online resources? Life, ALL life, began in the seas, including plant life. And please, not the "God day" horsepuckey. All animal life, land and sea according to genesis, appeared at the same time, same day as "Man".

Do you believe everything a scientist tells you? What makes you think Adam and Eve were the only mating pair? They bore numerous children who married and bore more children.

I certainly trust scientists, the Scientific Method, peer reviewed science and facts much more than an ancient set of manuscripts woven together for purely theopolitical reasons, ancient manuscripts full of self-contradiction, historical innacuracies, and whose every myth and miracle are easily disproven, without the need to resort to lame Apologetics either.

As I mentioned above, your objections to the account in the Bible are based on misunderstanding what the Bible actually says. That aside, scientists and engineers are studying and mimicking the design features of various creatures—a field known as biomimetics—in an effort to create new products and improve the performance of existing machines. Creation shouts DESIGN! INTELLIGENCE! and all scientists can do is learn from what was created by Jehovah, the great

.

1. No "misunderstanding" involved. Everything is there in black and white.

2. Wow, it is very difficult to develope a rational response to this insanity. If your god was some sort of deisgner, he would find himself homeless and begging on the streets since the world makes for some very poor design. Human gestation and birth is but one example I like to use often.

 

[AxisMundi]

BTW, rusra02, here's the online resource I use, since it's been some thirty years since I've read the thing...

BibleGateway.com: A searchable online Bible in over 100 versions and 50 languages.

Hmm, no adverts for "Secrete Bible Decoder Rings".

And I know your clergy don't have 'em. I asked.

 

[footprints]

what is there to debate? God is the greastest scientist of all TIME!!!!

LOL that will make some people think, even if it is to say you are wrong and give their justifications, reasons and excuses why.

Quite possibly you could be right, it certainly does hold probability, albeit God could be just an average scientist from where God comes from.

 

[darkendless]

LOL that will make some people think, even if it is to say you are wrong and give their justifications, reasons and excuses why.

Quite possibly you could be right, it certainly does hold probability, albeit God could be just an average scientist from where God comes from.

Careful now, to suggest God is not alone in his absolute elitism is bordering blasphemy

 

[Bird123]

With a bang God created the universe to unfold into what we have today just like a seed grows into a tree. What most do not realize is that is was created to unfold in such a way that man will figure it all out in time.The reason for this is that life is the education of God's children. Never worry about scientists for they are walking toward God. In time they will know.

 

[footprints]

Careful now, to suggest God is not alone in his absolute elitism is bordering blasphemy

LOL as an agnostic I have been condemned to hell by the theist and the atheist, a little blasphemy ain't going to change that position.

 

[darkendless]

With a bang God created the universe to unfold into what we have today just like a seed grows into a tree. What most do not realize is that is was created to unfold in such a way that man will figure it all out in time.The reason for this is that life is the education of God's children. Never worry about scientists for they are walking toward God. In time they will know.

And your speculation is based on what authority?

You can't state "facts" without support so support away. (Note: if it has anything to do with scripture please don't even bother).

 

[darkendless]

LOL as an agnostic I have been condemned to hell by the theist and the atheist, a little blasphemy ain't going to change that position.

The constant joy of being a fence sitter.